Hang on, just 14 years ago they were playing games at Bramley Road where the capacity was 2,000. They have come a long way since then so they must be doing something right.

They have moved numerous games to Wembley and despite getting only 4k at home for some games, they are able to get crowds of over 40,000 sometimes even up to 50,000. Thats higher than the 3 best Rugby League sides in the world could manage plus Wales for a double-header. I for one would love our club to see how they do it. How about moving the big one to Old Trafford and seeing 50k turn up for a Wigan game? That would raise our profile. It is not just Sarries who are doing this, Harlequins have had even bigger crowd at Twickers for some of their games, 70k+.

Imagine if Wigan could increase interest of 'The big one 4' and have it at Old Trafford. If they can suddenly get 10 times their home support then I'm sure we could at least double our average and get over 30k and fill the bottom tier at OT or the two bottom tiers at Eastlands.

RU clubs are miles ahead of RL clubs in terms of marketing, Wigan are capable of achieving great things with the brand we have and the success we have.

For this reason it could be a great move for us.

So with all this money and world class marketing all they can do is promote a one-off match (not numerous matches) which appeals to the same captive audience of Hooray Henrys as normally populates Twickenham.

A few quotes from the Sarries web site comments under the two days announced for them playing at Wembley 2011/2012

"I gather the exercise is to get more people coming to VR. So far not really noticed a rise in spectators. Wembley is good as a one-off experience, but the crowds there are going down, not up."

"can't see the point in Wembley anymore as from what seems to be the general concesus is that it's run its course. Although the entertainment is good there are no decent pubs near the ground the food & drink inside is very poor and expensive, travel to and from is a joke and the crowds are dwindling so can anyone tell me why?"

"No atmosphere at Wembley. The crowd is there for the entertainment and last season about half the folk seated near me left after the Half Time entertainment. The "support staff" are unhelpful. I don't like being treated as a potential soccer hooligan. Last year I was told the programme I pay for in advance I could ask to be sent to me AFTER THE MATCH. Why do we have to go back there? [iMost of the tickets are given away anyway, so it can't be a money spinner. [/iIt galls me that I have to pay full price for any visitors who sit with me (because I have a platinum season ticket) whereas other season ticket holders are upgraded for free and get huge discounts on family and friends tickets. And now we're going to play a Heineken Cup match against Biarritz IN SOUTH AFRICA? What's the point of that. Who's lost the plot? I don't think it's me!"

There are a couple of positive comments on the site but it does not seem their fans think it is a marketing success does it!

On the whole they seem pretty cheesed off with the whole exercise and are reacting no different to how we would if IL told us we were off for a "home" game down to South Wales.

So no, I don't think we can learn a lot except not to do as you say and (pointlessly) move fixtures to OT.

The difference is that we would be doing it added to the success we have already had. How did they get so many people to buy tickets for a RU match? They must be doing something right. I'm sure our club could do it even better.

I did say at the time that IL should have been braver and done a Maurice Lindsay in taking the Manley match to Man City's ground. Risky, would have meant a lot of work but the potential rewards would have been worth it.

I think you mean the St George game.

Leeds move their WCC games to a bigger stadium and always achieve a higher crowd than the capacity of their home ground. Maybe it should have been looked into, I'm sure it would have been. It would be interesting to know why they decided against it.

Them like England RU, Barbarians, Army vs Navy etc manage to attract fans to this big events somehow even though they are not union fans and they only ever go to these big events. The Marketing guys for these events must be great at their jobs as they make people want to go and attend these big games!

Saracens can get 50,000 at wembley for a one off game but how many of these are fully fledged fans who now go and watch saracens on a weekly basis?

Well given their average gate, about 6000!

I suppose that means they have fewer fans to annoy when games are moved to Wembley.

So as some of the comments from the Sarries fans themselves that I quoted said, the Wembley games are not translating into fans going each week.

And by the sounds of it even the Wembley crowds are dropping off in numbers and include a lot of give away tickets.

I fail to see the point of moving games to other venues if any new fans gained are few and far between and the evidence shows Sarries are NOT gaining any new fans because of these games.

It is not surprising really because anyone who finds it easy to get to Wembley isn't necessarily going to want to go up to Sarries and back again.

So what we can learn off Sarries is obvious. Don't move games to big venues and expect to get any new fans despite how many may turn up using the free tickets you gave out.

I much prefer our "Big One" idea that gets fans into our own ground. Encouraging them to come [ithere[/i is what you want. Not turning up once or twice a year at OT or wherever.

I would say that after spending something like £20 million + in that time that to still only be averaging 6,000 is quite a failure. Also each of those games at Wembley are losing a fortune and the Saracens fans complain that the 'additional' new fans only come for the pre-match entertainment. You could have paid 10,000 fans £100 a year just to watch them and got a better return on what Saracens have done

So lets get tips on making it a sell-out every single time.

Given they only get 6000 at their own ground what would they know about that?

Their fans do not see any benefit of the Wembley games to the club so the fact they get 40K on with free tickets and whatever is no use. We on the other hand are getting very big crowds at our ground with the Big One games. If a club has anything to learn here it is Sarries IMO.

I doubt the RFL would let us play at Old Trafford in the middle of the season as it would allow us and another team to play where we'd get to play if we reached the GF. I think there would be a chance at Eastlands or maybe a game at the Reebok get a few more in from Bolton etc (though thats not much bigger than the DW) maybe Ewood park thats over 30k but I think those fixtures may alienate some fans coz I see quite a lot walk in to the games so they can have a drink if they had to get trains or drive etc they may not come.

FOR A ONE OFF GAME. Like 'The big one'. They must be doing something right to get over 40,000 people to a single game. Maybe we can use some of their techniques to sell-out the big one every single time (even if it is still in Wigan).

Was watching SSN last night and they had a piece on Sarries fire walking at their ground. Interviewing players etc. A nothing piece but they were on nevertheless. Cant remember seeing Wigan on for something so trivial. We have a lot to learn from them re marketing

They want try marketing to improve there average.