The player that encapsulated both aspects is of course Andy Farrell. A no nonsense 100 % "do what I do" yet vocal captain. The perfect captain IMO.

Andy Farrell could dish out and take the biff and no mistake !

So yes, a passionate ex Wigan player, who only spoiled his copy book by going for the money from the dark side.

If not for that, he would have gained legendary/great status for mine.

Lockers is an everpresent and that is his bonus. Never in this world a great player. But a Mr Consistent, which all teams need.

Would never have got into our side in the 1990's though I am afraid.

RL's standards are dropping here in Superleague.

I agree to an extent. Lockers is certainly not a better player than Hanley or Faz, and his closest equivalent would be Phil Clarke (who IMHO I consider him to be a very fair imitation of).
The one thing that has struck me so far this season, is the dearth of genuinely creative players on show in SL. Cas were very good, by utilising a big bruising centre/wing combo, and Giants have a very good midfield general.
Im not sure whether its the weather, pitches or teams 'pacing themselves' this season, but this year has been poor in creativity, with forwards and defences to the fore.

Anyway - Lockers has certainly blossomed in the last few seasons. He's a decent leader (not great), a great defensive player now that he his learnt to stop taking peoples heads off, and has a good offload. He is the most consistent player on the field, and you know that he will run his blood to water for you.

Club great - yes. SL great - yes. Legend - no.

I can't believe that anyone would say that Andy Farrell was anything but a Wigan Legend or one of our greatest ever players/.

A 13 year career with most of it being the clubs captain and best player.

However he decided to end his career it was a decision he'd earned the right to make.

I think you have a very rose tinted view of our sides in the 90s! You're remembering the Hanleys, Edwards and so on but we had some very workmanlike players in those teams too and Lockers is in a different league to most of them! Superleague standards are indeed dropping overall but the best players ar still the equal or better than most of the players running around in those days. The likes of Sam, O'Loughlin, Westwood, Peacock, Roby etc. would walk into any team from that era including ours!

You'll get little argument from me. The point I'm making is that, just because someone doesn't measure up to the very best, doesn't negate their own worth. Otherwise all players are poor because they don't measure up to Wally Lewis! In fact, in my time watching the game, I can think of only one Wigan captain that measured up to Farrell in those terms and that's Dean Bell. That doesn't mean that the likes of, say, Phil Clark, Graham West or Ellery Hanley weren't great captains in their own right. Indeed, as is mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I'd say Lockers is very much the equal of Clarke. The only difference being Clarke didn't suffer the tag of being 'Andy Farrel's brother in law'!

I think Lockers has a more rounded game than Clarke, though of course we will tragically never know how he would have developed over the course of his career. Farrell was a fantastic player, over a long period - though the manner of his leaving us and subsequent behaviour casts a shadow of those memories.
Hanley, though, was the greatest British player I have ever seen. Not for nothing was he voted into 5 clubs' team of the century.

Bearing in mind he was only 50 / 50 late in the week he put in some performance can't wait until he 100 %, well done Lockers.

Quote: stillinthepast "This thread started out by saying how good Lockers is playing at the moment and now we have gone to who was the best Wigan Captain. What I am trying to get my head round is the mention of Clarke as Wigan Captain, he left for Aus at the end of the 94/95 season and to my knowledge he was never Club Captain. During the years he was at Wigan we had Hanley, Bell and Edwards who Captained the Club, maybe my memory is playing tricks ,if so I am sorry for butting in.'" Agreed. It always seems to go that way. But then praising Lockers has never been a straightforward enterprise. No real surprise if I'm honest! As for Clarke: www.wiganwarriorsfans.com/wigan/?s=Player&o=9962

Quote: stillinthepast "This thread started out by saying how good Lockers is playing at the moment and now we have gone to who was the best Wigan Captain. What I am trying to get my head round is the mention of Clarke as Wigan Captain, he left for Aus at the end of the 94/95 season and to my knowledge he was never Club Captain. During the years he was at Wigan we had Hanley, Bell and Edwards who Captained the Club, maybe my memory is playing tricks ,if so I am sorry for butting in.'" Agreed. It always seems to go that way. But then praising Lockers has never been a straightforward enterprise. No real surprise if I'm honest! As for Clarke: www.wiganwarriorsfans.com/wigan/?s=Player&o=9962

Almost a sense of deja-vu, Lockers had to live up to the "not Andy Farrell" and Clarke to the "not Ellery Hanley" comparisons - both of which in reality were impossible acts to follow in many ways. Fortunately both turned out to be top players (if maybe not world class players like the comparisons) but certainly more than good enough.

Lockers has improved massively over the last 2 or 3 years.

I still maintain that previous to that he was often a liability. Silly penalties, offering very little in attack and massively overrated on here.

However, I am geniunely delighted to say that this is no longer the case. He is a solid, dependable player and a great asset to the team. He would be one of the first names on the team sheet for me (at 13 of course, playing him at halfback is moronic).

Nowhere near world class, but then how many Englishmen are these days?

Fair do's BK for being big enough to do an about turn. On the other hand many of us have rated him throughout his career and the only difference over the last 3 or 4 years (as I believe I once suggested to you back then) is that he is in a better team. The penalties you mention, for example, were never as bad a the likes of you made out. I'd be surprised, in fact, that as a percentage of his 40+ tackles every week (and given that he was rarely, if ever, spelled back then) they were any worse than most other forwards. As for offering little in attack, you couldn't be more wrong. He has always had one of the best passing games for a forward in world rugby. That hasn't changed. What HAS changed is that he now has players around him running the right lines and of the right quality to take advantage. I think it's noticable that most of the 'Lockers knockers' have changed their opinion of him only since Maguire's tenure as coach. Look into the reasons behind that. It wasn't because Maguire suddenly made him into a different or even better player. It's just that the systems introduced made the most of his game. I find it interesting that, even during the time you maintain he was a liability, he never failed to give a good account of himself at international level. I even remember Peter Sterling waxing lyrical about him during the Aussie commentary to one international and, as we know, there are few English players who the Aussies are given to praising! I don't for a minute expect you to change your viewpoint of that time. I'm am suggesting however that it wasn't the majority of us who rated him, including all the coaches he has played under and every player he has ever played alongside, who were wrong. Maybe it was those, like yourself, who just didn't see it.