FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Wigan squad V Hull KR |
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| Quote: DaveO "You would have half the board saying it doesn't matter (as happened when Noble was here) and the other half asking why am I paying to go and watch rubbish then?
In my view to give value for money the bottom line is the team has to be good enough to do well in the league and win the end of season major trophies. That is regardless of whether or not the competition structure lends itself to make it relatively easy to win the trophies after a rubbish year in the league.
It should never be which do you prefer, "good league campaign and no finals" or "appearances in finals and a rubbish season".'"
I agree. Those saying that we shouldn't bother trying until July, or whatever it is, are simply not doing the maths.
The fans want to be entertained all through the season, not just at the end of it. Yes, undoubtedly there is something in the idea of resting players for certain games - which Wane actually did last year (and got massacred for on this forum - Widnes away, anyone?) - but fans may vote with their feet if they feel the club and the team are not trying very hard.
It is simplistic nonsense to say that league matches don't matter when they provide the vast bulk of the season's action.
For my money, the problem last year was that too many league games were too easy. There was rarely a sense of unbearable excitement, and too often we came away afterwards feeling that Wigan had not really been challenged. That is the problem with the league fixtures, IMO.
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23603_1336678755.jpg "Look, I'd never use injuries as an excuse..." Daryl Powell:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_23603.jpg |
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| Quote: Cruncher "It is simplistic nonsense to say that league matches don't matter when they provide the vast bulk of the season's action.
For my money, the problem last year was that too many league games were too easy. There was rarely a sense of unbearable excitement, and too often we came away afterwards feeling that Wigan had not really been challenged. That is the problem with the league fixtures, IMO.'"
Serious question: was this a problem back in the 80s & 90s too? I remember Leeds having a dig occasionally but the notion that we provided any kind of challenge is ridiculous. I'm guessing the same applied to most other teams, barring the occasional Herculean effort by Saints.
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26.jpg Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18:26.jpg |
Moderator
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| Quote: Clearwing "Serious question
No it wasn't. I was there throughout that time and people seem to forget Wigan didn't win every trophy every year. We had a remarkable cup run in the CC but didn't win the league on anything like such a regular basis and the same with the end of season premiership.
One season we lost the title to Saints in the last game. Another we won it on points difference from Bradford. Their coach Mr. Fox had been saying all season Wigan's superior points difference was worth a league point and so it proved. One season Wigan did only lose two league games to win the title and both of those were to Warrington. There were always certain teams you knew would always give you a really tough game and that was Widnes were always really good (until the wheels fell off for them), Warrington when Des Druimmond was playing was always a really hard set of matches and Bradford were also no easy beats and Saints never were. Leeds and Hull had patches of being dangerous with Leeds spending a fortune under Doug Laughton to try and emulate Wigan by buyuing the likes of Hanley and even our current coach.
Even the Wembley wins were not all as easy as the ones against Leeds
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| Figuring we'll see some stronger squads in the next two friendlies. Looks like he just has a few players he still wants to see in some positions. Better to do it now!
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| Quote: TaxingChimp "Figuring we'll see some stronger squads in the next two friendlies. Looks like he just has a few players he still wants to see in some positions. Better to do it now!'"
Exactly. There are basically 12 players in the side selected to face Rovers who don't qualify for the under 19's but will be outside the first 17 and those players will have to be sent on loan or dual registration. This is the only real time that Wane will get to watch them in a group, compare the players like for like and see what they've got to offer during a game.
Once the season starts a lot of these players could be all over the place; many at Leigh and South Wales but possibly some at other Super League clubs so this is a crucial time for making decisions as to who goes where and who is pushing for a first team place.
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6278_1381491357.jpg [b:3ekusm3q][color=#FF0000:3ekusm3q]WIGAN RLFC[/color:3ekusm3q][/b:3ekusm3q]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6278.jpg |
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| Quote: DaveO "No it wasn't. I was there throughout that time and people seem to forget Wigan didn't win every trophy every year. We had a remarkable cup run in the CC but didn't win the league on anything like such a regular basis and the same with the end of season premiership.
One season we lost the title to Saints in the last game. Another we won it on points difference from Bradford. Their coach Mr. Fox had been saying all season Wigan's superior points difference was worth a league point and so it proved. One season Wigan did only lose two league games to win the title and both of those were to Warrington. There were always certain teams you knew would always give you a really tough game and that was Widnes were always really good (until the wheels fell off for them), Warrington when Des Druimmond was playing was always a really hard set of matches and Bradford were also no easy beats and Saints never were. Leeds and Hull had patches of being dangerous with Leeds spending a fortune under Doug Laughton to try and emulate Wigan by buyuing the likes of Hanley and even our current coach.
Even the Wembley wins were not all as easy as the ones against Leeds
Other than the 7 years in a row:
89/90 - 4 points over Leeds
90/91 - 2 points over Widnes - mission impossible season
91/92 - 8 points over Saints
92/93 - PD over Saints
93/94 - PD over Bradford
94/95 - 7 points over Leeds
95 - 6 points over Leeds
So that's 4 different challengers for the league. We played 5 different teams at Wembley. There were 4 different winners of the Regal Trophy (7 different finalists), 4 different winners of the Premiership (7 different finalists) and 4 different winners of the Lancashire Cup (7 different finalists).
Compare that to the last 7 years.
3 winners of Super League. 4 finalists.
3 winners of Challenge Cup. 7 finalists.
There's no change. In fact, it's probably worse.
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62118_1550845628.png Everything [i:1c0rjla2]is [/i:1c0rjla2]Awesome:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_62118.png |
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| Quote: Cherry.Pie "Exactly. There are basically 12 players in the side selected to face Rovers who don't qualify for the under 19's but will be outside the first 17 and those players will have to be sent on loan or dual registration. This is the only real time that Wane will get to watch them in a group, compare the players like for like and see what they've got to offer during a game.
Once the season starts a lot of these players could be all over the place; many at Leigh and South Wales but possibly some at other Super League clubs so this is a crucial time for making decisions as to who goes where and who is pushing for a first team place.'"
I'm more than happy if this is indeed the case (and aren't we all second guessing SW from the comfy of our armchairs, anyway?). I'm more concerned about the Hock situation than not giving the 1st team a run-out, so long as they turn up on the 8th what's the problem? (although if they don't, this'll start all over again ).
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| Quote: Clearwing "Serious question
Around the end of Wigan's golden era - mid 1990s, attendances began to noticeably tail off for Wigan's league games.
This didn't happen straight away, because up until around 1985 Wigan had been in the doldrums for so long that to see them winning every match and lifting loads of trophies was a massive novelty. But even the Wigan crowd started to think it was boring after a while.
That said, there still good teams around then who could spring surprises. The Aussie and Kiwis still toured on a fairly regular basis, so interest was constantly kindled on the international front. There was also the marquee player thing that was always good to add a few thousand bums to seats. When Wigan made major signings - the likes of Martin Offiah, Gene Miles, Inga, even Nigel Wright who was the golden boy of Yorkshire at the time etc - that was always going to bring the crowds in.
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icons39ad_files/4821-1859san_c-msnicons.jpg Officially RLFAN's most Doe-eyed Happy Clapper.
Big Steve wrote:
The Internet has provided some wonderful creativity, opportunities and knowledge sharing but it has also given a worldwide forum for people you would leave a full pint behind in the pub to avoid having to listen to them.
aboveusonlypie...
If you don't bother to go to the game when you live in the locality then you are not really a fan and therefore your views are invalid. It's simple.:icons39ad_files/4821-1859san_c-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: Conroy "Other than the 7 years in a row
Its worse... No question, and the Aussies are still better than us.
So where does this leave SL and the Cap in its present form.. I don't know if anybody knows where this is, but i'm sure i saw Stevo, on TV when the cap was brought it saying "We have to find a way to stop this lot!!", and i'm sure he was refering to us...
Sorry to drift O/T
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3076_1671446335.jpg SAINTS THE ORIGINAL AND PERENNIAL CHEATS
For sale full Saints kit (circa 1989). Shirts in pristine condition, but shorts badly soiled.
For 27 - 0 you get a trophy
For 75 - 0 you get sod all.
Wigan had eight in a row
Saints have five in a row:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_3076.jpg |
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| Quote: Cherry.Pie "Exactly. There are basically 12 players in the side selected to face Rovers who don't qualify for the under 19's but will be outside the first 17 and those players will have to be sent on loan or dual registration. This is the only real time that Wane will get to watch them in a group, compare the players like for like and see what they've got to offer during a game.
Once the season starts a lot of these players could be all over the place; many at Leigh and South Wales but possibly some at other Super League clubs so this is a crucial time for making decisions as to who goes where and who is pushing for a first team place.'"
I was about to post exactly the same thing. Apart from Manfreddi, Hampshire, Burgess and Lever the rest can't play at U19's this year. Wane will certainly know his strongest 13, 15, maybe 17 but he needs to make sure of who he keeps around the squad and who goes out on loan, and maybe who leaves the club.
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icons39ad_files/4821-1859san_c-msnicons.jpg Officially RLFAN's most Doe-eyed Happy Clapper.
Big Steve wrote:
The Internet has provided some wonderful creativity, opportunities and knowledge sharing but it has also given a worldwide forum for people you would leave a full pint behind in the pub to avoid having to listen to them.
aboveusonlypie...
If you don't bother to go to the game when you live in the locality then you are not really a fan and therefore your views are invalid. It's simple.:icons39ad_files/4821-1859san_c-msnicons.jpg |
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| Double post...
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7007.jpg [quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]IMO, Sculthorpe at his peak was better than Hanley was at his.[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="nickmanator":3hoggrzp]billy boston in todays game might pinch a spot bringin the cone on and that bein kind[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="robbierotten":3hoggrzp]Imo Sam Tomkins is a very poor mans Danny Brough he is just a average player getting bigged up by the idiots who comentate on sky.[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="Deano G":3hoggrzp]Jonathan Davies, who is his equal in [Super League] today?[/quote:3hoggrzp]
[quote="Badwanger":3hoggrzp]Wellens[/quote:3hoggrzp]:7007.jpg |
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| Quote: DaveO "Even the Wembley wins were not all as easy as the ones against Leeds
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42170_1280565797.jpg Rule 1. I am always right.
Rule 2. If in any case I appear wrong, refer to rule 1.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_42170.jpg |
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| If anyone seriously thinks that you can 'not try' throughout the season like Leeds apparently did, which we didn't and it's as easy as that to reach finals then you are deluded. What this current Leeds team did in my opinion cannot be emulated by any other team in the league, it was a unique achievement by a unique set of players who are by far the best in the league when it comes down to the crunch games. Any teams which try to replicate what Leeds did I'm almost certain will find themselves with a low league position followed by an early exit in the play-offs. The delusion that any club can treat the main season as friendlys and turn it on when it matters is wrong, that's been proven throughout Superleague, bar the obvious exception of this unique Leeds team.
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3076_1671446335.jpg SAINTS THE ORIGINAL AND PERENNIAL CHEATS
For sale full Saints kit (circa 1989). Shirts in pristine condition, but shorts badly soiled.
For 27 - 0 you get a trophy
For 75 - 0 you get sod all.
Wigan had eight in a row
Saints have five in a row:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_3076.jpg |
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| Quote: Sibbs Rhinos "If anyone seriously thinks that you can 'not try' throughout the season like Leeds apparently did, which we didn't and it's as easy as that to reach finals then you are deluded. What this current Leeds team did in my opinion cannot be emulated by any other team in the league, it was a unique achievement by a unique set of players who are by far the best in the league when it comes down to the crunch games. Any teams which try to replicate what Leeds did I'm almost certain will find themselves with a low league position followed by an early exit in the play-offs. The delusion that any club can treat the main season as friendlys and turn it on when it matters is wrong, that's been proven throughout Superleague, bar the obvious exception of this unique Leeds team.'"
Aye, they're brilliant in crunch Challenge Cup Finals.
Although I do agree teams can't just coast through a season and hope it works out at the back end.
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icons39ad_files/4821-1859san_c-msnicons.jpg Officially RLFAN's most Doe-eyed Happy Clapper.
Big Steve wrote:
The Internet has provided some wonderful creativity, opportunities and knowledge sharing but it has also given a worldwide forum for people you would leave a full pint behind in the pub to avoid having to listen to them.
aboveusonlypie...
If you don't bother to go to the game when you live in the locality then you are not really a fan and therefore your views are invalid. It's simple.:icons39ad_files/4821-1859san_c-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: Rogues Gallery "Aye, they're brilliant in crunch Challenge Cup Finals.
Although I do agree teams can't just coast through a season and hope it works out at the back end.'"
I think most would agree with you on this RG, but, does it reduce the importance/intensity of games in the regular season?
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