The whole point of this to me and if you want worded wrong is ''At the PTB'' our wrestle is pre PTB and thats why you can not penalise it.

I've been saying the same thing - most people who are criticising wigan for slowing the ptb down don't really watch what's happening they are just jumping on a bandwagon which diverts attention.

Wigan are controlling what happens before the tackle is completed, making sure the ball carrier remains off the ground but wrapped up so they can control how he lands on the floor - once they have completed the tackle they peel off the attacker just like every other team do.

If an attacking player can practice how to land on the floor and get up quickly (which they do) then surely the defending team can practice how to stop the attacker doing this and getting an advantage - that's waht defence is all about isn't it?

Anything which stops teams amlost exclusively employing the 'scoot' in order to gain field position and disrupt the defence and encourages good creative passing, running lines and flair in attack has to be a good thing in my opinion - and having a slower ptb will do this - as has been proven in the NRL............

Im still waiting for any of these moaning coaches to provide actual real hard evidence that we are breaking any rules. Ive watched replays, highlights even after going to the games as well and I cant see anything wrong. As always people love to jump on the bandwagon when slagging off Wigan RLFC, when half of them dont even know what theyre slagging!

The way other coaches go on about is slowing the PTB down I expect our players to be having a cig and a brew reading the paper whilst lay on top of the opposition player trying to get up.

watching kears face then ..you could tell he knew he had just recieved a coaching lesson from micky maguire.

The good thing is we are now at least getting the odd bit of balance. Boots n All tonight even Cullen sticking up for us It's just basic stuff once the tackle is complete you have roughly 3 seconds to remove yourself from the player, you get a little longer for a dominant or surrender (the time it takes for the ref to shout it) we are under the same rules as everyone else, we delay we get penalised like everyone else, we interfere we get penalised like everyone else, you would think paid coaches would know (they do, looking for an excuse) The bit we are slowing down is before the tackle is complete, how can you change this aspect of the game? you cant unless you make it tag!! can any fan, pundit or coach show me that it's anything else ?

One galling thing about all this fuss is that it detracts from some of the best attacking play I've seen from a Wigan side in many years. Although Joel and Roberts' individual efforts were the cherry on the cake on Monday, our structure and link play in attack was brilliant in the first half.

Wakefield didn't lose because we "choked" them, they lost because we cut them to ribbons with ball in hand during the first 40.

Seems obvious to me - and I'm pleased to hear Terry O'Connor saying the same thing on Sky TV.

It's great rugby to watch, when we hit at the left side defence and then spread it to the right defence(or lack of it) with dummy runners and often two lines of attack it just makes me smile Have been waiting to see it for...... too long, but now it's here
All this with the same players. I know it's still early days but I think the signs are that we will get better. The confidence grows, they try more things, the ball sticks they believe more and more. The most important thing they are doing it with a smile and enjoying the rugby as much as we are.

As has been pointed out - We *DON'T* slow the PTB with wrestling tactics.

What we actually do is *whilst we are tackling* (i.e. Still stood up), we get 3 men involved and ensure that more often than not, we finish in a "dominant tackle" (making sure the grounded player lands flat on his back).

This gives us additional time to get up, as this is part of the rules.

Additionally, as soon as the ref shouts "Held", we get up immediately or get penalised.

The thing that is annoying me slightly this year is that the opposing teams are not being penalised as often as Wigan for lying on, despite the fact that we actually get up faster on average than they do.

Unfortunately, this is the result of so many out-classed coached whining about our "drying paint" style of defence.

All I can say is "Fook 'em". Let them get their own houses in order, rather than hoping that the ref will give their team a chance by penalising Wigan out of the game for perceived (but non-existant) lying-on.

Wigan do the same thing as many other SL and NRL teams currently do. Slow the PTB down to slow the oppositions momentum and gain a defensive advantage. When we hold down for too long, we are penalised, as are anyone else, and that should be reflected in our overall season penalty count.

I don't agree with the way this is worded and that's the point we should be trying to make. I agree with the first part, all teams SL and NRL do TRY to do the same thing,slow opposition momentum. Some get it wrong Hull at our place for one. The "slow the play the ball" is the bit that to me is wrong. Any team slowing the actual play the ball should and often are penalised, the wrestle is nothing to do with this if done correctly, and I can not see how it could be interpreted within the present rules any different. This is what we are not doing or at least no more than in the past.
We are slowing the point of completion down........... the point the ref calls held, normally at that point depending on the tackled players position the Ref will say move within a few seconds, it is at that point and that point only that you can be penalised for slowing the play the ball. Only other one could be if the player hits the deck face down and is turned after elbow contact, It's this particular action that's led to the "Chicken wing" and should be stamped out.
I think Madge has come across from the team who are at the forefront in this. Sadly it looks like a lot of coaches over here are either sour or just moaning to cover their inept training. To prove this we had the most successful SL coach training our players(the same players) over the last three years. While we may not win anything it's beeN a lot better to watch us this season, in fact I would say I have had more value out of my season ticket now than in the last three years put together.

esp as Cullen pointed out before we had done any SO CALLED WRESTLING in the first 90 seconds john kear go back to coaching school as you are clearly not up to it

It's the easiest thing in the world to do, blame another team for your own teams shortfall. Did anyone ask John Kear or any other SL coach why their team didn't throw the ball about like Wigan did, anyone can jump on a bandwagon to start moaning...can anyone remember if Steve McNamara came on tv bemoaning the Wigan tatics after they turned us over????