I've just had a look at the financials of Wigan and Saints since they moved into their new stadium in 2012.

Saints operating losses in that time are £8.352 million. Wigans in that same period are £3.751 million.

To be fair to Saints £3.56 million of those losses occurred in the first two seasons at Langtree when they had to do the refit of the cladding.

How much of Saints' losses relate to depreciation? They have in recent years tended towards breaking even at EBITDA level.

I agree Jukes if fans would turn up in numbers we would soon bounce back but if they moan and bitch and talk themselves into not going and spending money just because it isnt good enough in their eyes then it could be a long road back.
even though stats and trophies over the years are far better than other clubs.

So let me get this straight - the reason the club is underperforming at the moment for some is because of the fans and not:

- Those who had the power to get the club a replacement for Hastings when it's been common knowledge for about a year he was leaving and still haven't?
- Those who had the power to get a suitable replacement for Gildart and are giving us Thornley?
- Those who had the power to terminate Lam's contract and didn't?
- Those who had the power on recruitment and retention and have given us the current squad?
- Those who had the power to not have the disastrous policy or re-signing ex-players - none of whom were better the second time round, and most considerably worse?

But it's some the fans fault for not spending enough money when we spend up to the cap anyway?

The thread is mainly about the apparent financials of the club, which of course would improve if those that sit at home and criticise actually bothered to turn up.

You can't out £0 into the club and then complain when the club doesn't make any money.

As is no doubt obvious to everyone else (bar one or two others), those were examples of the club knowing for some time that two key players were leaving and at the moment we seem to have Thornley as the only replacement. One of the key players / positions at the club haven't been replaced and we're now hoping for a bit of luck to find someone anywhere near close in terms of talent.

Obviously the fans fault.

In terms of underperforming, I assume the last three year haven't passed you by?

The point being if you make numerous bad decisions and the team is underperforming, you don't give some people the reason to part with their cash when there's a cost of living crisis going on for a lot of people.

If 5000 more people turned up to every game and the same decisions were made, we'd be in exactly the same position because we're in a salary capped sport.

Replacing Gildart with Thornley is fine IMO. Gildart has hardly played for two years and as things stand we have Hardaker, Bibby, Thornley and Halsall going for two spots.

The fact we’re still scrambling for a Hastings replacement is pretty unforgivable IMO. He is a big loss and our only real loss for next season as things stand. The other players leaving have been injured more often than not or they haven’t been selected, so I’m confident the squad is automatically quite a bit stronger but it’s hugely let down by us not sorting out a top quality replacement for Hastings.

It's a good point, but I think if goes deeper than that too.

15 years ago or so, I could watch a Wigan Vs Saints game that had Radders, Faz, Newton, Smith, Lam Vs KFC, Long, Scully, Lyon etc. The standard is dog turd these days, but yet we keep being asked to dip our hands in our pockets.

I'm slick of A - being taken for some kinda cash cow that the club, sport take for granted and, B - forced to happy clap about how great British RL is. People won't like it, heck i wouldn't either, but it's time to get rid of the cap - even if that means Wire win the league.

They haven't passed me by no, but other than mentioning Lam all of your other comments (Hastings, Gildart and the squad) relate to next season. Or am I making things up again?

We pay up to the cap so yes you're probably right in terms of the squad (although there are multiple ways our salary can increase with player dispensations), but if 5000 more people turned up would we be able to pay a transfer fee for a player? Or possibly spend more money on marketing or one of the other sticks used to beat the club?

Why did people not part with their cash when we were winning things? Crowds haven't just fallen in the last season and a half.

Yep, you're making things up again.

The other things I mentioned have been happening for a number of seasons and affect past, present and future - things such as recruitment and retention issues have been years in the making.

George Williams was the replacement for Hastings. We all know that. It didn't come off and so we've had to go back to the drawing board. Field and French being injured all season and neither playing any time in the halves to see how they would fare also hasn't helped.

And yet every season our fans say we should be top 2/3.

Was the recruitment and retention poor in 2016 when we won the league? Or 2017 when we won the WCC? Or 2018 when we won the league again?