We have been for a few years John, I keep hoping we are going to correct the problem but then we sign the likes of Mago!

I think that is a fair summary. We need to get rid of a number of players and sort our recruitment out. Mago, Singleton, Powell, Cust, Miski, King, Thornley and either Isa or Faz need to go in order to release some cap space and non-federation quota spots. Miski has been one of the successes this season but we can’t have a backup winger as an overseas player. Likewise we cannot afford to carry two players who are coming to the end of their illustrious careers. We need to follow the Saints model: size; power; and craft. We are forever commenting on ‘if we had their pack of forwards’ but our management do little to bridge the gap. As for our coaches, they must now come under the spotlight. Lockers is our defence coach and we are leaking tries for fun. Tommy is our attack coach and we are struggling to create opportunities. Peet now looks out of his depth with team selections.

Apart from the 53 tackles he made? 22 more than anyone else in a Wigan shirt and 17 more than anyone in a Saints shirt.

Was half expecting some raw stats to be used but they don’t show his impact on the opposition, he doesn’t dominate tackles, he’s too small. Symptomatic of our entire pack to be honest, great engine but absolutely offers nothing in attack to warrant the opposition being concerned by him. You would think he did more tackles anyway with the amount of ball we didn’t have. He’s a bit like a welterweight throwing 100 punches on a heavyweight and then the heavyweight lands one and puts him down.

Great post (and raised a smile here)

Agree 100% on the pack as a unit - not good enough.

Can't agree with some other comments on this thread re get rid of Smith/Cust/Hampshire/King/Thornley - if we fix what is the real problem (the pack) then these guys look 100% better. I'm not saying the backs are perfect BTW.

Rest Smith? For who - Farrimond isn't ready and where is Astley? Maybe Forber at a pinch?

TBF - Get Havard back and maybe look to promote the biggest reserve prop we have, get Singo fit along with Isa and we get more out of Hill/Nsemba rotating in. We just can't afford less than 4 forwards on the bench right now so pick your best Hooker and Stand off and stick with them.

Lost to a better team on the day that is all,we will bounce back,big ask but if we get past Warrington that should give us confidence moving forward.

Hate too see idiots cause issues no I dont mean the ref I mean bottles being thrown.

Aside from Ellis, who I think has been playing consistently well and to a high level this year, none of our other props were anywhere near good enough to seriously expect us to beat Saints at their best.

Byrne, Singleton, Mago and Hill is not a front row that will really trouble teams. They simply aren't good enough. We went into this season knowing Byrne hasn't put a consistent run of good form together but presumably the club just hoped he'd get better, which isn't the case. It takes some decent young forwards to reach the age of around 28 before they are playing consistently at their best to make them dependable starters. We could be waiting a long time.
Singleton and Mago aren't good enough. The club obviously knew that a while ago as they were trying to ship Mago out but inexplicably decided not to and Singleton isn't getting a contract next year but is going to Salford. Why don't we try to move these players on if they aren't good enough and try to recruit better? We just keep hold of average players until their contracts run down rather than trying to move them on and recruit better. There are clubs interested in these players - there are plenty of recruiting props. Have ambition. Take a risk or two.

Hill, I thought he showed up pretty well in his brief stint, looked much more impressive than Singleton and Mago but he's just not at the level where he can compete with the forwards Saints have.

Havard is a huge miss, because he's a top quality prop. We should improve when he returns. Isa or KPP should make a difference on the right edge meaning we are capable of better than we're showing currently, but I think our wins over Saints and Wire early in the year were at a time when lots of our players were in good form and Saints were out of form and Wire had key forwards missing for that game.

It's obvious how little we threaten teams down the middle right now. It's been a long term issue and it's hard to see how we fix it. We've got issues in the halves and issues at hooker but honestly I don't think they are the biggest of problems. Our halves are struggling because the pack is not performing. We're trying to over-play without laying the platform so moves are rushed, rash decisions are made. Give the halves a bit more time and they will play better.

We may have recruited two high value centres in the off season but that's like fitting an F1 spoiler to a Ford Fiesta. Without any power there's no benefit, even if what you've got is of a high standard.

We haven't got a pack that matches the best teams in the competition so we're always going to be hoping our players can all hit peak form at the same time and that our main competitors don't. The pack is capable of playing better than it has been but I'm not sure we can do it consistently.

A massive issue for me is trying to shoehorn all our spine players in to one side. One of Field, Cust and French have to miss out IMO. I'm not sure dropping Hampshire was justified, I thought he was playing himself into some form, and Smith looked comfortable with him also.

For me, Hampshire at 6 and play Field off the bench next week. As bold as it sounds...

I think last night showed why Sam Powell is picked week in week, the standard of ball from dummy half was terrible every pass was behind the receiver meaning they were stood still, compare that to Roby hitting their forwards perfectly in their stride and that gives them a huge advantage before you factor in the superior size

WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!!

Hang on a minute!!!!! Don't you know O'Neill is the next Cameron Smith compared to Powell??

Last night confirmed we need a couple of new hookers as the ones we have aren’t good enough in more than a couple of basic facets of the game.

So are we keeping anyone for next season?

You tell me. Aren’t we documented as having a major upheaval after this season anyway? Are you hanging on to that three game Easter window and ignoring the rest of the season so far?

You mean when we were top 2?

Not a surprising result but still very disappointing.
Selection wise we have very options for the next few weeks and even when Havard and Isa return I don’t think it will be enough.
Peet needs to decide who his 6 is and stick with him for 5 or 6 games irrespective of the results. For me that cannot be French or Field. Personally on the assumption that Astley is injured I’d go with Hampshire.
I don’t think that we can afford a hooker on the bench. It’s either Powell or O’Neil to start and I think Powell will get the nod.
Bench next week for me would be Singleton, Mago,Hill and Nsemba. Not earth shattering or exciting but needed to try and bolster a poorly performing pack.
Somehow Peet and his coaching team needs to get the squads confidence back.
The next two games are critical for the season and a couple of losses could really sink any lingering aspirations we have of any silverware. I don’t think we have squad to do it but as always on such a negative view will be happy to be proven wrong.
Interesting times