Slightly off topic but it was reported in the Rugby League bible (Manchester Evening News) on Wednesday that Thornley is now weighing in at 109 kilo, that is some weight for a centre.

You miss the bit where:

A) Saints fans say the injury is caused by a single blow as its concussion
B) LH says he's been suffering since after he started playing again
C) He's been in full training and played a number of games

Kind of leads to the conclusion that he didn't have a problem at the start of the season nor a few games in. The single blow can't have come from Flower and if it did then Saints medical staff aren't competent if they missed this or Saints have been actively covering up (as you write).

That would be £0 then.

BBC website 15 April 2015 - Lance Hohaia: St Helens half-back hints at NRL return. In the article LH says "I haven't made any definitive decisions on the future just yet."

Two weeks later he has to retire immediately saying “I have been experiencing recurrent post match concussion-type symptoms since returning to play" (RLW website).

Concussion is very much a hot potato in the rugby world at the moment yet LH is reported as touting for an NRL contract, presumably at the time of suffering "recurrent post match concussion-type symptoms since returning to play"?

Odd story this one.

I agree, and thats why i have not commented on it... There is something very odd about it.

I overheard a brief discussion Friday night about something along the lines of because he's bowing out injured before the end of his contract, at least some of the tax he owes will be written off (or even refunded). Something to do with foreign contract law. Does anyone know whether this has any legs - or did I overhear nowt more than a couple of conspiracy fruitcakes?

In all probability I think it's likely down to what happened in the grand final, however I don't want to see Flower persecuted any more, as he's served his time. Not to mention, the lad has to live with this for the rest of his life and you have to feel for him somewhat, to know that one moment of madness is looking like defining his whole life at this point.

It's worth noting for the people that are asking why he's been playing with a concussion, that a concussion is not what his claim is, but that he has post-concussion syndrome which is different. If anybody followed wrestling around 2005 then they might remember that Christopher Nowinski suffered a concussion after somebody landed on his head. He carried on wrestling for a few months afterwards but then had to retire too due to post concussion syndrome that would not go away. It's not always immediately apparent and in rare cases it can indeed be permanent (even though somebody earlier said that it couldn't). He's gone on to write books on the matter that helped with the sudden concussion awareness within WWE and the NFL.

Anyway, I hope Lance recovers from this and can enjoy his retirement. I feel like he's (so far) been exemplary in his handling of this whole situation and I'd like to think it won't go any further legally and I hope both men are able to find peace with this incident and can move on without it casting a shadow over the rest of their careers and lives.

Excellent post mate.

15 pages of bitterness, lies and accusations and then this. Word perfect.

And then you add to it with another accusation! Everyone would be wise not to comment further until the truth behind his retirement and the silence from Saints is known.

Nowhere in my post did I accuse anyone of anything. I simply agree with the probability.

Mate, you can agree or disagree with the probability all you want. That, of course, is your prerogative. However, at the time of writing, there are no grounds, medical or otherwise, to support that viewpoint and the fact that someone else has posted something similar to your personal viewpoint (a post which contains inaccuracies may I add) doesn't justify your previous post.

There are some contentious views on this thread and many that are unnecessarily weighted in favour of one side of the argument or the other. That's normal for these type of forums. Posting "15 pages of bitterness, lies and accusations and then this. Word perfect." puts your own posts right in amongst them though, but as long as your including your own posts in that assessment I have no issue with it.

As to the Reaper's post itself; it was an excellent addition to the debate and well balanced in tone. The sort of post I wish there was more of on these boards. It falls down on a couple facts (IMO of course) and I'll address these separately in a direct response to his. I do feel you do him a disservice though posting as you did. Agree, by all means, but let's not keep bringing it back down to playground squabbling. There's more than enough people willing to do that already!

It was always going to come down to that. I think Saints/Lance Hohaia should have quashed it if they don't know for sure (Or maybe they knew what would happen if they were as vague as they were?). Simply saying what they did opens the door for all of this, and if it turns out not to be the case, they're going to look daft. Ian Milward actually wrote in Sporting Life that Hohaia has retired because of the punches in the GF.

To be fair, Ian Millward doesn't know the difference between his own ärse and a hole in the ground most of the time.

I don't agree. There is no bitterness or accusations or lies in my posts. Simply an opinion that it's likely that Flower had caused the problem Hohaia now has.

Compare that to some of the other posts on here which include accusations of him making the injury up, wanting to get out of his contract, saints wanting rid of him to sign anew full back,etc. Thats what I meant by lies and bitterness.