FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Joel tomkins asksto be omitted from England squad |
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29281_1270406980.jpg When Maurice sold me to Leeds something changed, it just not the same, the passion inside me just wasn’t the same as running out at Central park for my hometown club.
We need a change of culture here; we don’t want to be just happy with playing ok on Saturday at St Helens.
Ill make sure that from now on things will change, that players will be under pressure and will train a lot harder than they have before.
Shaun Wane 8/10/09
"WE HAVE ACHIEVED WHAT YOU CAN ONLY EVER DREAM OF"
WIGAN RLFC
The Mirror 30/10/09
How the Premier League table would look if teams were awarded points for famous fans...
20th: Wigan
The Latics don't have any fans, yet alone any famous ones.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_29281.jpg |
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| Quote: wigan_knight "Its a absolute cert that his brother will follow him..joel will be a big name on big money playing on a much bigger international stage..And sam will be on less money getting abused week in week out by fans playing infront of 15k at wembley against australia.
not really a hard decision i would say.'"
Already sold over 30K I believe...Just saying like
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39037_1308952193.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_39037.jpg |
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| Quote: Dave26 "So we should just sit back and let it happen?'"
What can be done to stop it scrap the cap? Then we'll have everyone cry arsing that wigan are winning everything again because we're buying everyone on big wages.
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26.jpg Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18:26.jpg |
Moderator
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| Quote: wiggywigwig "everybody moaning about the loss of players to union and how its the salary cap this salary cap that. Clubs had a vote and voted not to raise the cap. '"
And you have no thoughts on that clubs may well vote that way in their own interests and not that of the game as a whole? This game has been held back by short sighted club chairmen who buy into clubs as a hobby than any real desire for the game as a whole to progress. Mo Lindsay had many failings but lack of vision wasn't one of them. On that score the current lot of chairmen are useless.
It is blindingly obvious those involved in clubs with less money available will prevent those who have it from using it to pay players more cash even if that means the best ones are lost to the game. They do not care if they think it means they have a chance at matching the better clubs.
Quote: wiggywigwig "Personally i dont see the problem with anyone bettering themselves financially because if we have it right there is not a chance in hell the RL could ever compete with Union finacially.'"
If you don't see a problem with this you are obviously happy to accept RU can come and pick whichever players it wants whenever it wants from any club it wants. The game can protect itself to a degree over things like this by doing things like tying players to long term deals and enforcing the contracts. If we can't or won't do that then that is anarchy.
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123.jpg No trees were harmed during the creation of this post.
However, a number of electrons were mildly inconvenienced.
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Saint94 wrote "Every team is in your feckin shadow....we all know." - Amen to that, brother
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Saddened! wrote "We've got the worst backline in the competition, bar possibly London and Wakey. I'd swap our 1-7 with Salford in a heartbeat.":123.jpg |
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| Quote: wiggywigwig "What can be done to stop it scrap the cap? Then we'll have everyone cry arsing that wigan are winning everything again because we're buying everyone on big wages.'"
Except that it will be Wire who try to buy everyone, followed by us, then Leeds and Hull.
Saints would be at the top of the next tier, along with Huddersfield, KR and Catalans.
Then you would probably have everyone else.
So a 3-tier system that would still have pretty much the same top 8 as now. Only RL might actually be able to keep a few top players and even (gods forbid) tempt a few GOOD Aussies and maybe a RU player or 2, rather than leaking the best in the opposite direction(s).
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39037_1308952193.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_39037.jpg |
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| Quote: DaveO "
If you don't see a problem with this you are obviously happy to accept RU can come and pick whichever players it wants whenever it wants from any club it wants. The game can protect itself to a degree over things like this by doing things like tying players to long term deals and enforcing the contracts. If we can't or won't do that then that is anarchy.'"
Its not a case of being happy about it its a case that nobody can stop it happening. They cannot enforce players to see out their contracts everyone has the right to buy themselves out of contracts and thats what union is doing. As fans we obviously arent going to be happy that players might or might not be leaving but at the end of the day its peoples lively hoods we are on about, they get paid for doing a job and somebody is offering them a chance of change of career with better incentives and salary. What would anyone else do if someone came to them and said come do this job for me and ill give you double your wages and all these other incentives.
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7447_1318587549.jpg "Not once has anyone whinged, moaned, blamed refs or looked for answers other than what's inside. That's why this is special." - Brian McDermott 08th Oct 2011:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_7447.jpg |
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| Quote: Dave26 "So we should just sit back and let it happen?'"
Its certainly an ever increasing problem. Was bad enough when they were pinching players at the end of their careers. Will be a blow for RL if a player of Joels ability is allowed to leave. I've felt for a while that central contracts need be held for the top 25 English players each season - with their additional RFL payments not counting on the cap.
On the other hand, maybe Joel wants to leave. Why spend the next 10 years putting your body through the physical battering of RL when you can lounge around in a RU threequarter line seeing the ball twice a match. More money for a likely longer career - maybe he isn't so daft after all
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33718_1325770967.jpg Games as big as Grand Finals define individuals and clubs. Remember, we only rent these journeys. In my time I had Pat Richard's shirt. Ellery Hanley had Sean O'Loughlin's jersey. Sam Tomkins is wearing Radders' number one jersey. Andy Coley is wearing Shaun Wayne's jersey. You have to make a mark in these shirts before you hand it down to someone else. Hand it back. So be aware for 80 minutes that you are not only playing, but you are also writing history and creating legacy. How many people actually write history - not many? A big stage demands big players…..INSPIRE YOUR TEAM MATES.
Martin Offiah MBE, pre-Grand Final Speech, 2nd October 2010.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33718.jpg |
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| If the cap was a % of turnover, then it would be Wigan at the top, not Warrington.
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HULL KINGSTON ROVERS is my religion, Craven Park is my church and Jordan Abdull is my God: |
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| Surely the answer to this is that anybody who comes through your own academy and is in your top 25 man squad doesn't count on the salary cap
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23564_1342783768.png [b][color=#0000BF]SUPPORT • SPONSOR • PLAY • JOIN A MIDLANDS RUGBY LEAGUE SUCCESS STORY
//www.coventrybears.co.uk[/color][/b]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_23564.png |
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| Quote: TheSurgeon "If the cap was a % of turnover, then it would be Wigan at the top, not Warrington.'"
I think you're right. It would also encourage clubs to bring in more revenue through sponsorship and more emphasis would be put on how clubs market themselves, giving the game more publicity throughout the UK.
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Black Backgrounds/Statler.gif :Black Backgrounds/Statler.gif |
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| Joel is a minor loss to rugby league, he is VASTLY over-rated and I'm sure Wigan have just as good or better second rowers coming through the youth academy.
The loss would obviously be Sam, and something needs to be done. However, quite a few people on here didn't seem so bothered when Eastmond left Saints for union, in fact it was hilarious it seemed. It is that kind of attitude which is driving English RL backwards, we should support our game as a whole before we support our individual clubs.
Even if we don't raise the salary cap, teams who develop their own talent should be rewarded with a percentage of such players' wages not counting towards it.
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45658_1356296105.jpg [color=#FF0000:1fnfdzuc]Wigan vs Leeds finals aggregate score.
Wigan 178 - 64 Leeds
Wigan wins - 6 Leeds wins - 0[/color:1fnfdzuc]
I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass, and I am all out of bubblegum.
Don't you struggle. Don't you fight. Don't you worry, cause it's your turn tonight!
Esse quam videri.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_45658.jpg |
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26.jpg Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18:26.jpg |
Moderator
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| Quote: wiggywigwig "Its not a case of being happy about it its a case that nobody can stop it happening. They cannot enforce players to see out their contracts everyone has the right to buy themselves out of contracts and thats what union is doing.'"
No they don't have a right. They can ask to leave and be told no. They only have a right if the contract stipulates a get out clause.
If it were that easy there would be no contracts at all and players would swap clubs willy nilly inside the game never mind going to RU. Anti tapping up rules would be unenforceable and as I said it would be anarchy.
Quote: wiggywigwig " As fans we obviously arent going to be happy that players might or might not be leaving but at the end of the day its peoples lively hoods we are on about, they get paid for doing a job and somebody is offering them a chance of change of career with better incentives and salary. What would anyone else do if someone came to them and said come do this job for me and ill give you double your wages and all these other incentives.'"
Sports contracts are not like normal employment contracts. They do not have notice periods as mine does with my employer. They are fixed term contracts with two parities involved and if one of them does not agree to it being terminated then the fact the player could earn more elsewhere is irrelevant. Joel can ask to leave but IL should tell him to honour his contract. Simple as that really.
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| Quote: Smurf "Joel is a minor loss to rugby league, he is VASTLY over-rated and I'm sure Wigan have just as good or better second rowers coming through the youth academy. '"
joel tomkins last years dream team second rower is over rated?
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63362_1317664225.jpg [b:35jm31e6][color=#FF0040:35jm31e6]Formerly known as Moonlight Flit[/color:35jm31e6][/b:35jm31e6]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_63362.jpg |
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| Quote: (Saint) "That's your opinion with which I simply do not agree.
Eastmond is a case in point, Dave. His departure was deemed by many as an absolute disaster for RL, at this point its a case of 'Kyle Who?' as Lomax and Gaskell have emerged in his stead.
Rugby League is ingrained into the fabric of towns like St Helens and Wigan. There will always be hundreds and thousands of lads who grow up desperate to play for their club, and there will always be someone else to step into the breach left when people move elsewhere.
People are talking as if an exodus of players would result in the death of the game. I've never heard such rubbish.'"
Your premise is that our game is thriving. It isn't !
Many years ago there used to be loads of players waiting for trains at Wallgate station travelling to play for the likes of Warrington,Salford,Swinton and all the rest. Wigan was a conveyor belt of talent and they couldn't all play for Wigan.
Nowadays far too many young lads would sooner play with their Playstations than get roughed up in the scrum.
To lose players of the calibre of Sam Tomkins is an unmitigated disaster. The last time we had any great players at Wigan, they were people like Sean Edwards and Andy Gregory. And how long ago was that ?
Great players don't come along every day. You see a few in a lifetime.
The salary cap was a disaster from day one in my opinion. You cannot blame too much these young players being seduced by big money for an easier life in Union. But unless something changes, then Rugby League will just be a 'feeder club' for Rugby Union
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22964_1381135683.jpg [color=#FF0000:3ohiykr5][b:3ohiykr5]Wigan Warriors - 2017 World Club Champions[/b:3ohiykr5][/color:3ohiykr5]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_22964.jpg |
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| Quote: MrPhilb "Surely the answer to this is that anybody who comes through your own academy and is in your top 25 man squad doesn't count on the salary cap'"
That's a viable solution, which rewards those clubs who put effort into developing players, and makese sense. You could even just have 50% of their salary exempted.
So, in other words, no chance of it happening.
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