Whenever we have injury problems I always think back to that squad that won the GF and that season in general,, S. Tomkins, J. Tomkins, McIlorum, Manfredi, Clubb, Mossop, players out of position, injuries throughout the season, losing 62-0 at Wakefield, how we won that year is still a mystery to me.

rather play nsemba than isa too

I’d go with Hill personally, don’t want to lose too much size in the pack

To get one of Isa or Havard back would be great. If it were Isa, you could move KPP central, were he’s looked excellent or Havard is a straight swap. I think Peet may bring both back at some point but I’d resist that. I think Nsemba has earned a spot in the 17.

Not a good year for props around Billinge way. Looks like Saints will be missing four of ours this weekend vs Wire.

Byrne and in particular Havard have impressed me this year. The Wigan pack is so, so much better without dross like Clubb, Singleton etc around the place any more. I would include Isa in that too and am surprised people are excited about the prospect of him returning.

I think you're half right. The pack is definitely better than it has been in years, but most of that is a result of being patient with Byrne/Smithies/Havard turning into good players, instead of very promising ones. Easy to call the likes of Singleton & Clubb not good enough, but they were vital in keeping us competitive in a spell where we had some very young forwards (inc. Partington) who had all the enthusiasm but lacked the power they needed at the time.

Having said that, it was the right time to let Singleton go, as it was with Clubb. On Isa, he's obviously never been a world beater but he can play with a level of aggression and intensity which makes him an asset in the big games. It can go the other way too, but with so many of our forwards now possibly out for the year, having the option to bring in Isa and move KPP inside could be vital for us.

There has never been much respect for Isa over St Helens way but he's been pretty important for us over the years. He's limited in terms of skill but brings plenty to the table and we've missed him when he's been absent this year. At his best Clubb was much the same and was a good player for us for a time but we held on to him too long and showed too much loyalty. As for Singleton, well you tried to warn us when we signed him and I personally didn't listen. In fairness he did have his moments pre Matty Peet coming in but since the start of last season, he looks to have aged about 10 years and we did the right thing on that one and cut our losses.

Definitely much better pack this year (despite Redvee still desperately hanging on to the notion of it being weak) and, on top of big improvements from the likes of Havard and Byrne, I think Dupree coming early has been something of a masterstroke. We'd have been seriously struggling for numbers without him given that 3 of our first choice props are currently sidelined which has been the case for much of the season.

KPP, Hill, Nsemba and a resurgent Mago, finally being the type of prop we hoped we'd signed, have also added much to the size and power in the pack and we're now in a position where we've been able to bully opposition packs in a way we haven't for quite a while. The Catalans away game being a prime example.

For that reason I get where you're coming from with Isa although I think it's more as a consequence of KPP and Nsemba proving so effective. In the past his defensive aggression and will to win have been important for us despite his limitations in attack. It's probably pushing it a bit to call it "excitement" at his potential return and more a case of having the extra body at the moment. I've little doubt we'll need it at some point and, whilst he may not add anything to what we already have, he also won't let us down.

The most pleasing thing about Byrne and Havard is having them tied down to long term deals. You cannot develop your own props, blood them in the first team and see them walk away at 22/23 because they won’t be at their best until 26/27/28+. It’s sad to lose KPP just as we’re seeing him kick on but to have those two and Dupree at a good age really sets us up.

Small ray of hope in Peets Wigan TV interview, stating they’re getting second opinions to see if he’ll make it back before the end of the season or if he’s done. Sounds like he’s probably done but you never know.

Yes made me wonder why he wouldn’t just put it to bed if it was 100%. Maybe there is a chance we will see him &
Ethan again soon

If Havard was done we’d have been told by now. Reckon he’ll in the squad come the semi final.

You could beat Wire with no pack

I never thought I’d have said this a few months ago but if this is true it’s a huge loss. He has been superb for a while now and is turning into a real pack leader, he’s certainly making me eat my words and long may it continue.

Us and Saints have had some tremendous bad luck in the props this season. I don’t know whether it’s a testament to both clubs quality or the lack of it in SL for where both are in the league.