Leuluai and Smith have totally different strengths. There are some things Tommy is doing to a far higher level then Smith could manage but by the same token I think Smith was better in some other areas (clearly kicking out of hand being one and we do miss that from deep).

The time was right for Smith to move on IMO and nothing has changed my mind so far. His confidence was shot at points last year and he never really recovered. His form for us hadn't been great for 3 seasons and it just felt right for both parties.

Wow I can't believe this thread exists.

Is it April 1st?
Last season and to a lesser degree the season before we were truely atrocious to watch and Smith was a major player in our "style".
I'm still unsure what we played but it wasn't rugby league.
We got more entertainment in the second half against Hull than we did for the whole of last season at home.
Where I would agree is that TL kicking out of hand isn't great and personally I would have kicking for position on the majority of occasions.
He may well come back to harm us on GF but TL for Smith was an absolute no brainer for me.

Unbelievable! Matty Smith lacks skill. He never takes the line on, his passing accuracy is awful, he's slower than my Mum, Williams had to do far too much because of Smiths ineffective play.
This season we have been far more fluent in attack because of Tommy. He is dictating all that we do, freeing Williams up to wreak havoc.
Tommy wasn't great on Friday but it was the defence down Gelling's flank that got ripped apart. Not because of Tommy who missed a tackle but regardless is far better than Smith ever was or ever will be!

I agree with this. For me Matty Smith was a 'crap weather' performer, even then I have only seen him put in two superb performances ever! One for Wigan (Hull FC Wembley Final) and England's Test Match vs New Zealand at the DW a couple of years back. Both of these games were played during downpours and the pitches were heavy.

I never saw him break a defensive line, a show & go and hit the gap. Never.

Nevertheless he comes across as a really decent guy, was impressed at the time he spent consoling Wire players at the end of last years Grand Final.

On Friday we played like we did for most of last season. What's the commonality between the two? Missing our best second rowers and most of our 3/4's. We'll be reet soon enough.

Fair enough. I was meaning the Business end, as I think you know.

Was attempting to start a discussion about whether people are happy with TL. For me, regardless of what Smith did or didn't do, TL needs to improve his kicking (which at his age isn't going to happen). And just one try assist from six games isn't too hot either.

If you'd prefer not to bother - then don't.

They are different players.
Tommy has already made 12 tackle busts this season, Smith only made 13 in a full season.
Smith made 2 errors in his one game for Saints Tommy has made 3 so far.
Tommy has already made 98 tackles and missed 7, Smith last season made 470 but missed 60. In sinple terms Smith misses almost twice as many tackles as Tommy.
Smith managed to run for 4 metres for Saints on Friday!!

The point I am making is that they are totally different players, and I think it's no coincidence that Wigans attack and defence has looked better since Tommy came back. I do share your concerns about the kicking game though.

Maybe but business end of the season is bigger games which Cronulla in WCC was.

As you probably read there isnt much backing for Smith or regret that he has been moved on.

TL as never had a good kicking game and doubt he was brought in just for that.....so I would look at Wane and recruitment if this does end up costing us.

Assists for a scrum half are not everything if we was scoring the majority of our tries around the width of the posts I would expect his assists to be a lot higher. However if you look at our tries this year they have been in corners or down the flanks so the assist will be by the centre / second row or Williams. This is also the reason why Escare successful kicking % this year as been around 60

The assist is an unfair stat IMO. Just because the centre makes the last pass they get the credit but the real damage may have been done by another player in the middle of the field.

Our attack this season has been far more slick than in previous years but we have consistently (for years) scored more tries out wide due to our attacking structure.