I'd go with Nicky Kiss's back line but the back 3 would be Hoffman(how good is this lad) Joel and Skipper and just hope Farrell is fit

Roberts has go to start next week IMO. At 1.

I agree with W/L/A we were very predictable. An almost Noble-esque lack of a plan B.

I did expect Roberts on sooner as a tactical change to let Tommy go to 9, and Sam to 6. By the time it happened we were knackered. Roberts only came on to give Finch a break and it didn't vary our play enough.

I am also fed up of seeing Sam at 1. It's doing a grand job of turning him into the exact opposite of a team player. When he gets the ball at 1 both he and the rest of the team seem to think if he doesn't do something miraculous with it entirely in his own then that is the end of that particular play. One man Rugby is what it is. It doesn't work against good sides like Wire who have him wrapped up before he's made a yard over of the gain line.

Not a big fan of Joel at centre but I'd go with that.

We are missing Piggy big time!!

I don't think Joel at centre is a good idea. We need him back in the back row and back to his best. Whilst he may be a good tackler and solid defensively, the thread on here mentioning average players is spot one with Hansen. He offers absolutely nothing in attack. He rarely takes the ball up so rarely makes any metres. He doesn't pass the ball well and he seems to be completely incapable of offloading or even stretching the defence. He also isn't a difficult player to put down because he doesn't run the ball with any aggression.
Joel needs to get back to his best so he can stretch the defence and create opportunities and just generally cause problems down the right in the way that Hoffman is doing down the left hand side. Forget 'earning your place in the side', tonight our players looked jaded and unenthusiastic and Joel should go straight into the starting line up. He should be fresh after two games out and he should be determined to make up for his mistakes. If we don't have any real threat down the right then teams are going to find it so easy to defend against us and we're going to start forcing plays and coming up with stupid errors.

I have not read that thread but if it pings Hansen as average its clueless. He has already had some very good games for us this season and scored 3 tries! I guess the defence wasn't stretched at all for those. His stats are actually better than Joel's so far in most categories in 2011 if you look in the engage web site.

I am a big fan of both players and I will bet you Hansen will get picked whenever he is fit this season.

He had little to do with the ball or in defence and like I say I don't want this thread to sound as though it's all about slating the lad because it's not. He's doing a solid job but i'm not quite sure he's ready to be starting every game and I couldn't find him a place in our best 17 at the moment in all honesty.

I think the way i'd prefare this thread to go would be to talk about how we need Amos Roberts qualities in the side at the minute. He looked our most dangerous back when he came on and this side really needs a broken field runner like Roberts in it. I'd have to find him a place somewhere.

I really do think Marsh is slowly but steadily improving.

His three tries came from competing for a kick against Saints (which came from a lucky bounce that fooled Wellens), a spot of luck against Bradford when Chev Walker spilled a kick and then simply had to run for the line for his try against Salford after Leuluai did all the hard work. They aren't exactly examples of his good attacking play.

Hansen does beat Joel in terms of tackles stats, fewer errors and fewer penalties but not really anything else. He still doesn't make many metres. If Hansen has put in a good stint tonight then I'll hold my hands up and admit that I might be wrong but I don't remember seeing much of him. Joel has been off form so far this year but showed signs of improvement against Hull and hopefully if he can get back to what he was like at his best then there is no comparison between him and Hansen.

From what I've seen of Hansen in the last few years I just think he offers absolutely nothing in attack. He's the epitome of what is wrong with so many forwards in this country. He is a good all round athlete with a good physique and fitness but his skills are seriously limited.
His defence is good and he makes loads of tackles in a game, but Farrell is capable of making more and offers and attacking threat, Joel can make a high number of tackles but still pose an attacking threat, Hoffman can make a high number of tackles and still pose an attacking threat, O'Loughlin...blah blah etc etc.
Hansen just never seems to impress me and is a brilliant defender and a poor attacking player which to me makes him pretty average for a top side.

So why does he get picked? I don't want to use "the coach is always right argument", I'd much rather have a discussion, but I think I can see why Madge keeps picking him. His work rate is at the top of pile in defence and for me I have no worries when he is on the pitch. I think he is very under rated.

He gets picked because his defence is sound. I'll never start arguing that Hansen's defence isn't good because it's outstanding and the team is built around having a strong defence. It doesn't mean that you can't do better though. Perhaps I'm just too much a fan of skilled players in the back row and like to see offloads and passing plays and such things. I like what Joel brings to the side because last season he made several tries for us down that right hand side. For me Hansen just doesn't have that attacking ability that would make him a first choice in the back row. I think he has his uses as a player who could be brought off the bench to steady the side or start a game to get off to set out a solid defence early on but I wouldn't like to have him in the side playing 80 minutes because I just don't think he offers enough.

I do think Joel makes more breaks and is a more threat on attack and I'd expect him to be more of the "star player" type but with our current squad I think Hansen will always make the 1st 17 if fit. I think he will make it not because he has an awesome offload or whatever but because Madge plays the percentage game and Hansen fits into that kind of game plan to a tee.