FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > v Hull FC |
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| Quote: Grimmy "Ok whether we call it racism or xenophobia doesn't really matter, it's still not OK. The point I'm trying to make is that there is historical context to why using Polynesian as part of an insult holds more gravity than Welsh/Aussie, due to the way those people have been (and sometimes still are) treated.'"
I’m saying that xenophobia isn’t frowned upon like racism, if anything it’s encouraged in some environments. With regards to slavery I’m not sure it has much bearing, if you called an Asian person a p**i that would be just as offensive and to my knowledge that derogatory term has no links to slavery.
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International Chairman | 574 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote: Mr. Zucchini Head "I mean it's plausible I guess.
Tbh I am fairly sure that there won't be sufficient evidence to prove anything either way and that nothing will really come of this.'"
In any other situation, I'd agree with your assessment.
However given the nature of the allegation in these current times?
And I have to say, as an employer myself, I'm slightly concerned by the voracity of the club's joint statement.
That's something you wouldn't normally expect to see PRE investigation.
Afterwards, if case proven? Absolutely fine to send out a clear message.
But before one even takes place?
Very unusual ... Some might even say prejudicial.
Although not totally unexpected, given the timing of it.
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Club Captain | 16 | |
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| Just playing devils advocate here. If the Andre Savelio was born in NZ, raised in the UK, and hasn't played international football, does anyone know what nationality he is? On that basis is calling him Polynesian vastly different from a Frenchman being called a European this or that if you are genuinely unsure of someone's nationality? I have never seen Polynesian as a racist word, nor a slur, but maybe people are still in that guessing phase on what was said. Pom or Pommy is an ethnic slur apparently these days, but Poly isn't.
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Player Coach | 15453 | |
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| Quote: CobraCraig "I’m saying that xenophobia isn’t frowned upon like racism, if anything it’s encouraged in some environments. With regards to slavery I’m not sure it has much bearing, if you called an Asian person a p**i friend that would be just as offensive and to my knowledge that derogatory term has no links to slavery.'"
I don't get your point. I agree that saying those things about Asian people wouldn't be OK either.
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| Quote: Egg Chasing "
No way, if I pick on anyone, it certainly isn't prop forwards
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| Quote: Fleets "Just playing devils advocate here. If the Andre Savelio was born in NZ, raised in the UK, and hasn't played international football, does anyone know what nationality he is? On that basis is calling him Polynesian vastly different from a Frenchman being called a European this or that if you are genuinely unsure of someone's nationality? I have never seen Polynesian as a racist word, nor a slur, but maybe people are still in that guessing phase on what was said. Pom or Pommy is an ethnic slur apparently these days, but Poly isn't.'"
But your nationality isn’t your race that’s what people are getting confused with (although it maybe is confusing xenophobia is accepted on the whole and racism isn’t). If he’d have called him a New Zealand or English I don’t think we’d be having this conversation.
I also agree that Polynesian isn’t a racist word, but sandwiched between stupid and c**t it brings on another meaning like putting any other accepted name for a race in between.
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International Star | 7792 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote: NickyKiss "He’ll get what’s coming to him and rightfully so. The world is hot on absolutely any form of racism at the minute. These things don’t have sliding scales of offensiveness, so he’ll be judged in the same way if he’d racially abused a black or Asian player. I wouldn’t sit in a group who’d say it’s like calling him a lazy, useless, cockney **** but we do have double standards as a society when it comes to things like this. Had Clubb done it to Josh Reynolds next week instead and called him an Aussie so and so or to Regan Grace and called him a Welsh one, we wouldn’t bat an eyelid. I’m not sure that’s right but it’s the world we live in right now and players should know better.
I really do hope Clubb comes out and just owns up to it (presuming he’s said it) and takes what’s coming. He’ll get an inflated punishment in the current climate and be made an example of and he’s only himself to blame.'"
Just wonder what your Polynesian coach Lam thinks about it
Cant see Clubb playing for your club again
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| Quote: Fleets "Just playing devils advocate here. If the Andre Savelio was born in NZ, raised in the UK, and hasn't played international football, does anyone know what nationality he is? On that basis is calling him Polynesian vastly different from a Frenchman being called a European this or that if you are genuinely unsure of someone's nationality? I have never seen Polynesian as a racist word, nor a slur, but maybe people are still in that guessing phase on what was said. Pom or Pommy is an ethnic slur apparently these days, but Poly isn't.'"
I would suggest that Polynesian is a race of people. I've googled it and it's a bit ambiguous but the general feeling is it's a race.
If he did say it I would hope it's out of pure ignorance to the fact that it's a race of people rather than a nationality. Like has already been said, if he'd called him a "Stupid Kiwi C@@t" then there's perhaps nothing to see here.
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| Quote: CobraCraig "But your nationality isn’t your race that’s what people are getting confused with (although it maybe is confusing xenophobia is accepted on the whole and racism isn’t). If he’d have called him a New Zealand friend or English friend I don’t think we’d be having this conversation.
I also agree that Polynesian isn’t a racist word, but sandwiched between stupid and c**t it brings on another meaning like putting any other accepted name for a race in between.'"
You have nailed it there CobraCraig, that is the point that many of the fellow Hull fans I work with couldn't grasp. Education is vital to beat racism, it has deep rooted generational origins in our society and people do not actually think racist remarks , they do however soeak them, often not realising that fact. Possibly Clubb was doing just that and never intended it to be anything other than a throwaway off the cuff remark, with the C word being the basis of his insult?
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Club Coach | 7439 | No Team Selected |
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| It probably is an off the cuff remark said without any thought. I doubt he’s meant it and I doubt even more he’s the slightest bit racist. His colours would have shown long ago if that were the case IMHO.
But there’s no hiding from it. Whether it’s racist/xenophobic or whatever matters not. The crux of the matter is is that it’s totally abhorrent on every level and needs stamping out of society in general. It may not seem the worst slur in the world but if he gets away with this, someone else thinks it’s okay to call someone else a “Pakistani [insert slur here]”. The game and sport can’t just concentrate on serious racial slurs, it has to be stamped out at low level and dealt with harshly. By doing so it sets an example and makes those really, really horrible slurs less and less (I’m not saying this isn’t horrible or trying to judge it’s level BTW).
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Player Coach | 5505 | |
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| Quote: Leyland Warrior "It's been touted elsewhere that just maybe Clubb said the above, rather than what's been alleged.
May be true ... Maybe not
But what if Clubby claims that's what he actually said?
He's already been tried & condemned across much of Social Media.
Folk rushing to judgement, based only one person's take on events, when it's just as possible what was said contained no racial context whatsoever.
Like I said, just a thought.'"
I have to say that, having seen that, it sounds a far more likely thing to say. I thought the use of the word Polynesian strange as I've never heard it used in a derogatory way...well, not in the UK at least. Obviously we don't know and anything is possible. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
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| Quote: The Whiffy Kipper "Yet you keep trying my patience and I make Feka look like Willie Peters
You may not realise it, but we have met. You are vast, but in no way intimidating
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| Quote: bonaire "Just wonder what your Polynesian coach Lam thinks about it
Cant see Clubb playing for your club again'"
Seems to have a great relationship with Clubb in fairness, so he’ll probably see it for what it is and that’s a mistake the bloke will be punished for. Decent people make mistakes in life every single day and presuming it’s true, then Clubb has made one. You can see from reading this thread what an absolute minefield the whole race issue has become. Am I surprised a rugby player may not be quite on top of what is and isn’t deemed acceptable in today’s society? Not at all but maybe the game can help him and other players by educating them.
His future at Wigan may well be in the balance. I await the ‘we dumped him because he’s rubbish’ debate with glee.
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| Quote: Phuzzy "I have to say that, having seen that, it sounds a far more likely thing to say. I thought the use of the word Polynesian strange as I've never heard it used in a derogatory way...well, not in the UK at least. Obviously we don't know and anything is possible. I guess we'll find out soon enough.'"
It's not 'Polynesian' that was used pejoratively it was the word used in conjunction with the ones either side of it,
It's also quite a stretch to think that Savelio missed heard Clubb saying "You put your knees in..."
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