I think Havard, Cooper and especially Walters will play a massive role in our chances of success. One thing I thought yesterday did for me was to give clarity on our best side (which is basically just deciding the make up of the pack). Mago deserves all the praise in the world for his efforts in getting fitter and his form and there are plenty of games there for him but if we had a full squad tomorrow and a big game to play, I think Walters comes in for Isa, Havard for Mago and even though I probably wouldn’t go with 3 props on the bench, I think we’d see Cooper for Nsemba.

Well no it seems like you didn’t really follow the conversation. We were talking about scope for improvement for the teams at large, to do that you’d be talking about how the game was going at 13 v 13 which is what I was doing and I assume Nicky was as well. If you want to talk about room for improvement as the game was at 13 v 12 then yeah… of course there’s more room for improvement from you. You were also much further behind us when you were down to 12 lol. It doesn’t make sense to approach it from that perspective

I love Willie Isa (don’t ever miss the surname of that sentence), he’s been brilliant for us and has brought great value but I do agree on him sadly. His age is showing and there isn’t enough threat or ability to make ground on that right side currently without KPP or his replacement in Walters. I’ve been hugely impressed with Adam Keighran but in a grind like yesterday I also thought we missed Toby Kings ability to make ground. Keighran is a different sort of centre and that’s fine but you can’t then lose meter makers in other areas.

You mean we were winning when it was 13 v 13 despite having been down to 12 men for 10 minutes at that point? Or do you mean we were clearly getting on top prior to the Byrne sending off? Perhaps you mean you couldn't score when we were first down to 12 and only managed to score a try in the dying minutes despite both those advantages?

Again, I'll ask you the same question: Do you think Salford will have the same room for improvement as yourselves when you next meet?

Yeah, bit bizarre to not bring him on when you were down to 12, when an injection of energy was clearly needed. As you say, he’s also a beast of a man so could cause some problems and make some much needed metres. Cant really get my head around what Peet was thinking there

And you are fully entitled to your opinions to the current stanfard of refereeing and rules, but i feel you could articulate it much better than the personal insults you are currently throwing around.

For the record, i think Kendall was pretty fair yesterday, both teams got away with a couple of things but it balanced out. In fact, he could have been much harsher with us in 6 agains and penalties if he had wanted to, our discipline is a big issue currently.

I also don't like the direction that the rules are heading in, Dupree's should have been a penalty only & Byrne's a yellow, but under the current rulesets the ref's hands are tied so i feel the cards he gave out were justified. Things will only get worse next season, i forsee disaster with the armpit rule.

That's not strictly true. He could still be more even handed (under the current rules the accidental head clash is a card etc.) and, it's been said that the video ref thought there was mitigation in the Byrne sending off and it should have been a yellow. Those types of decisions are on the ref. They're hands aren't tied. It's down to interpretation.

NK was saying we had more improvement in us based on the game yesterday. Not on selected bits of it. On the whole game! You can't pick out the bits where we were 13 v 13 and argue it as if the periods of being down to 12 has no effect. And despite all your statistics we were winning that game until we got a man sent off.

Please answer the question asked. Do you think Salford have as much improvement in them as yourselves the next time you meet? If you keep avoiding the question then there really is no point in these exchanges.

That's fair, under the current rules i agree the head clash is a sending off. First i have heard about the video ref thing, not sure i agree with him.

This x100. He decides to go with red, even tho the VR says yellow. Same for the tip tackle on Wardle. I saw Isa get a red for less last year & a few games on top too. Throw in the 2 points we should have had for the obvious ball steal and everyone really needs to ask themselves - What reason could there be for his obviously one sided approach to yesterday. I know my answer and I truly believe that he's dodgy.

It's gone past him being incompetent, just ask the majority of teams that have had to suffer a game Vs Saints under him. No one, who's a supposed pro, can be that bad for that long.

Btw, I don't want to be talking about this. I want to be talking about how it didn't click for us. We weren't direct enough. Both French and Field did too much lateral running. Not using a bench spot, especially when we'd been down to 12 and defended for much of the game was a crazy decision.

I'm not talking about that tho and refuse to criticise the team, especially when there was a far more serious issue on the day. Nothing will change if people keep defending these incompetent pr!cks, no matter how much they are laughing at us.

Watching Saints is rinse and repeat, so I don’t really see where any massive improvements would come from, that’s my point. It’s been defend for your lives and try and trample teams in the forwards for years now. I don’t see signs that anything will change in that regard. The attack was getting pelters last season from Saints fans and I see no improvement in it tbh.

What they will be is hard to break down and they'll try and get you in a scrap. Wigan’s attack also isn’t firing but the difference is we know it can and what it can do when it does. To me it feels like Saints have one way of playing, whereas Wigan can match it in a grind, as they did (with 12 men for parts) yesterday but when conditions allow it, they can also open up and score from anywhere on the field.

I think you have some very good points there. Four things you haven’t factored in are injuries, home advantage, suspensions and pitches firming up. They will have a huge bearing on where the silverware end up. To some extent we can dismiss the second element as most of our games are likely to be played at neutral venues. The hard pitches are likely to suit us more as we have more pace in our team, conversely as the season continues the wet pitches are likely to suit you. Suspensions and injuries, whilst being unknown quantities, are guaranteed and will ultimately determine the destiny of the CC, LLS and SL trophies. I am convinced that we have a better squad and, all other things being equal, I am convinced that will give us an advantage. Havard, Cooper and Walters will all make our 17 and had they played yesterday I am convinced that we would have seen a different result. Saints deserved their victory and now it is up to Wigan to find a way to turn that result around.

I'm surprised no one is talking about this. I said the same at the game. Isa got banned for far less last season and it didn't look dissimilar to the Harry Smith one in the Cas game (apart from Wardle didn't dive to try to make it look worse). I'll qualify any comments with acknowledgement that I only saw it at the game but it was definitely hands between the legs with a lifting motion.

What's the consensus on this? I'd be interested in hearing the opinion of those who's seen it on replay.

No disagreement from me that you have a much superior strength in depth which will be hard to overcome. Fortunately we don’t need a whole lot of strength in depth to get into the top 2/4 and get into the big games, and then we can compete in a one off game. but we will need a slice of luck on the injury front no doubt, something you’d be able to deal with much better. I’d back our first 17 against anyone, but the chances of that making the field for any one game are pretty slim