NB I've just re-read the official club statement. The actual words were "we believe the Operational Rules Tribunal made an error of law in its decision or failed to act fairly in a procedural sense"

Thats quite vague and open to interpretation. It could be challenging the grading or challenging the guilt. It could be trying to exploit a loophole but we don't know. Thats my point but please don't assume.

There isn’t a player welfare issue because they banned the player who hit Greenwood high and that is what Wellens wanted with the Asiata tackles. He then is part of an attempt to get a player off on a technicality and that doesn’t add up or sit right IMO.

Ultimately I think most people are broadly in agreement in terms of the main issues. The disciplinary is a mess and needs urgent attention. It’s inconsistent and as proven by Saints appealed appeals, it’s open to be challenged on technicalities, so it can’t be water tight. There is too much focus on head knocks and not enough on other issues. The amount of time spent debating all of the above only highlights what a mess it is. It’s become the most discussed subject, when the disciplinary process should just sit in the background and tick along.

Maybe my choice of words wasn't the best, but the only thing that looks silly is the game.

You rightly, or wrongly beat the drum about the "good of the game" and then aren't happy with people calling a spade a spade. Do you think interviewing that guy in his garden boosted , or improved the perception of the game to either new fans or sponsors? There was probably a better way of me putting it, but it's like it went out of the way to belittle the town and sport.

Those are the issues facing RL, not Saints doing their utmost to keep a winning streak going. Wellens can be as hypocritical as he wants - must top coaches are (not saying he is one by the way) Wayne Bennett, Fergie, Mourinho, Pep all start little fires here or there to either motivate or distract. You think when Fergie moaned about fixtures post CL games he cared about the other teams players? It was all about getting an advantage for United.

ATEOTD, we're both big clubs and we should be right behind the m on this.

Mate, I'm not intending to be patronising but you keep posting that I have said things I haven't. How would you like me to respond exactly? Repeatedly means more than once. You say so yourself in the above post. I said it in that way as it's the 2nd time in less than a year that Saints have tried to get a player off on a technicality rather than because he's innocent of any offence. You ask how I know this: well, as I understand it, that's the only thing you can challenge an appeal on so the appeal is it's own proof. If that's not correct then I will, of course, withdraw my statement but I'm fairly sure I'm right. If, however, the club thought it wasn't a banning offence then I have to say they need to take their Saints blinkers off. That (and less) has been a ban all season.

Your justification for the Knowles appeal is exactly the point I'm making and, at the risk of seeming patronising again, I thought you were better than that. If he commited an offence then it shouldn't matter if his ban covers a final! Players have missed out on international honours, finals, play off games and all points in between because they transgressed in the games leading up to it. That's exactly as it should be! Why should an exception be made because it's a final? I'm staggered you even think that.

I agree with a lot of your points here. I'm a Saints fan first and foremost as you are with Wigan. Woolf was paid by Saints to win trophies and when he withdrew players from international games to increase our chances of winning trophies then that suited me. Yes the likes of Nicky Kiss on here will disagree vehemently and say what about the wider game but I pay good money to watch my team and naturally I want them to win everything.

I'd rather opposition fans hate Woolf but we win stuff than for everyone to say Peet seems like a good bloke because he allows all the Wigan players to play for their country.

As I said, you make a lot of good points and call a spade a spade all you like but you don't know the bloke you're calling a scrubber from a council house and at that stage, the good points become less effective. I actually do know people who know that guy and by all accounts he's a thoroughly decent chap (if a little eccentric) and he loves rugby league, so he's ok by me. The game is portrayed as almost amateur at times, I agree with that and IMG need to start earning their position within the game and work on that perception. There will always be room for a romantic tale though and you can't just brush out the games roots in working class, Northern towns. It's a balancing act and one we need to work on. The players should be superstars but outside of Rugby league towns, nobody knows them from Adam.

Is that not worse Stu? You don't believe they should have done it but you agree with the fact they did? I know you used the word "understand" rather than "agree" but the fact that you're offering it in mitigation suggests you have some sympathy with the decision. Don't you think that's hypocritical? Unless your opinion is that it was the right thing to do in the first place in which case I'm not sure you have any right to object to anything being said here.

However, I think the points being made have become somewhat blurred. If, as you admit above, Saints do push the boundaries to gain an advantage, whether you agree with it or not, why did you object when I said the same?

Exactly.

Wigan 1st and if that's means following the same approach as Saints, then that's fine.

He's a lifelong Leigh supporter and even has pieces of Hilton Park on display in his garden.

I wasn’t saying that there shouldn’t be an appeals process. What I was saying was that the version of frivolity you provided us with was an interpretation not the actual rule. Unless you can actually quote the rule we are all guessing when it should be applied.

But we are subject to the same rules and we have not bleated about the process/system.

I like Wellens but his public comments about Asiata are uncalled for. If he wishes to raise Asiata’s tackling technique as an issue he should have taken it through the appropriate channels. That part of the game should not be played out in the media. From what I can gather, Asiata’s tackling technique is not breaking the rules of the game (although I have to say I don’t like it) and consequently Wellens should be asking the RFL to look at the rules not pillorying the Leigh player.

Further to the above from Saint's own press release:

The Club’s then lodged an appeal on Wednesday night which was based on the fact that we believe the Operational Rules Tribunal made an error of law in its decision or failed to act fairly in a procedural sense.

So definitely a technicality.