FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > New Boss |
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Player Coach | 3019 | |
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Feb 2006 | 19 years | |
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International Board Member | 32358 | |
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Oct 2002 | 22 years | |
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Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
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| Quote: Brick with eyes "Winder to Edwards , nailed on'"
Why would Winder accept the coaches position knowing that he's going to be sacked/demoted in 12 months? It's not going to happen.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3971 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2009 | 16 years | |
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Oct 2024 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
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| Quote: Rogues Gallery "Why would Winder accept the coaches position knowing that he's going to be sacked/demoted in 12 months? It's not going to happen.'"
I’m not suggesting this is happening for a second.
However from Winders POV it’s win win
Guaranteed employment on a decent wedge for 12 mins minimum
Looks amazing on a CV
Invaluable experience and little risk
Potential to keep his role once Edwards steps in (hypothetically)
Just for devils advocate.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 5846 | |
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Aug 2006 | 18 years | |
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Sep 2024 | Jul 2024 | LINK |
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| Quote: tugglesf78 "I’m not suggesting this is happening for a second.
However from Winders POV it’s win win
Guaranteed employment on a decent wedge for 12 mins minimum
Looks amazing on a CV
Invaluable experience and little risk
Potential to keep his role once Edwards steps in (hypothetically)
Just for devils advocate.'"
I thought the same... Win win for Winder.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 4784 | No Team Selected |
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Dec 2008 | 16 years | |
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Mar 2020 | Dec 2019 | LINK |
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| Quote: tugglesf78 "I’m not suggesting this is happening for a second.
However from Winders POV it’s win win
Guaranteed employment on a decent wedge for 12 mins minimum
Looks amazing on a CV
Invaluable experience and little risk
Potential to keep his role once Edwards steps in (hypothetically)
Just for devils advocate.'"
Unless he's poor and tarnishes his future rep for years to come. In a position which could make him look bad when his hands are tied. Who's team would it really be? He'll not be making any signings and probably have little say with who comes in and who leaves.
Will be be respected by players and coaching staff? Debatable, players know full well he's not in charge after a 12 month max.
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International Star | 2795 | No Team Selected |
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Jun 2011 | 13 years | |
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Nov 2024 | Nov 2023 | LINK |
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| As we stand (no new coach confirmed), the current squad are playing for their long term future. They’ll know they have to impress whoever is appointed in order to be part of their long term plans. If they know Winder is getting the job on a caretaker basis, it could lead to complacency and a culture of familiarity that would breed negativity around the club. It’s a dangerous plan but if IL believes it to be the right call, I trust him. Winder would not be my choice but I’d keep my faith in IL & KR and see how things go.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 4784 | No Team Selected |
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Dec 2008 | 16 years | |
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Mar 2020 | Dec 2019 | LINK |
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| FWIW I would much prefer Edwards to any name in the mix. Especially Furner, who's time at Canberra should be reason enough for us to stay clear.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3971 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2009 | 16 years | |
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Oct 2024 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
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| Quote: Last Son of Wigan "Unless he's poor and tarnishes his future rep for years to come. In a position which could make him look bad when his hands are tied. Who's team would it really be? He'll not be making any signings and probably have little say with who comes in and who leaves.
Will be be respected by players and coaching staff? Debatable, players know full well he's not in charge after a 12 month max.'"
Fair points however
If the team are poor then he gets the "i had no real control" sympathy vote or get out clause. If hes good he gets the "my hands were tied but just look at what i have achieved" argument.
Even if unsuccessful its just a risk free 12 month apprenticeship. I know we are a results driven organisation but experience either success or failure is still 100% a good thing to have
For the latter, i agree this could (could.) be a factor, however duration of a Head Coach's contract does not strictly equate to the level of respect a HC has. For example its still possible for a HC to lose the dressing room 3 months into a 3 year contract for example. Thats a risk factor for both the coach and his employer for the entire duration of his tenure.
In addition, if we have that type of player at our club that bases respect on nothing other than duration. We need to look at who we are signing.
Hypothesise aside. If i was Winder and this opportunity was offered to me. I would bite IL's hand of from a personal development POV not to mention the potential for a 12 month wage bump compared to now
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 4784 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2008 | 16 years | |
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Mar 2020 | Dec 2019 | LINK |
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| Quote: tugglesf78 "Fair points however
If the team are poor then he gets the "i had no real control" sympathy vote or get out clause. If hes good he gets the "my hands were tied but just look at what i have achieved" argument.
Even if unsuccessful its just a risk free 12 month apprenticeship. I know we are a results driven organisation but experience either success or failure is still 100% a good thing to have
For the latter, i agree this could (could.) be a factor, however duration of a Head Coach's contract does not strictly equate to the level of respect a HC has. For example its still possible for a HC to lose the dressing room 3 months into a 3 year contract for example. Thats a risk factor for both the coach and his employer for the entire duration of his tenure.
In addition, if we have that type of player at our club that bases respect on nothing other than duration. We need to look at who we are signing.
Hypothesise aside. If i was Winder and this opportunity was offered to me. I would bite IL's hand of from a personal development POV not to mention the potential for a 12 month wage bump compared to now'"
Coaches aren't always respected for whatever reason I agree, but such an appointment puts Winder onto a back foot from the get-go, players know his position is very short-lived. I personally don't see it as risk free at all, very little is, especially in a management coaching position. If Wigan drop off a cliff during his time as head coach it will certainly reflect on Winder, it can't not. He can throw all the excuses at it he likes, but mud sticks.
Either which way, this type of appointment faces difficulties before it even begins, not ideal.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 255 | No Team Selected |
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Jan 2008 | 17 years | |
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Mar 2022 | Feb 2022 | LINK |
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| Can anyone think of a top Rugby League coach who’s never played the game. As far as I’m aware John Winder has never played rugby.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 5846 | |
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Aug 2006 | 18 years | |
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Sep 2024 | Jul 2024 | LINK |
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| Quote: Last Son of Wigan "Coaches aren't always respected for whatever reason I agree, but such an appointment puts Winder onto a back foot from the get-go, players know his position is very short-lived. I personally don't see it as risk free at all, very little is, especially in a management coaching position. If Wigan drop off a cliff during his time as head coach it will certainly reflect on Winder, it can't not. He can throw all the excuses at it he likes, but mud sticks.
Either which way, this type of appointment faces difficulties before it even begins, not ideal.'"
So, assuming you work in a very high profile company, if offered your bosses job for 12 months, you wouldn't take it?
That's a rhetorical question...
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 4784 | No Team Selected |
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Dec 2008 | 16 years | |
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Mar 2020 | Dec 2019 | LINK |
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| Quote: Wigan Peer "So, assuming you work in a very high profile company, if offered your bosses job for 12 months, you wouldn't take it?
That's a rhetorical question...'"
Not that black and white, never is. I'd way up the pros and cons before making a decision. (PS are wigan offering me the position? this is exciting).
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 5846 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2006 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2024 | Jul 2024 | LINK |
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| Quote: Last Son of Wigan "Not that black and white, never is. I'd way up the pros and cons before making a decision. (PS are wigan offering me the position? this is exciting).'"
As i said, rhetorical.... Once in a lifetime opportunity, only a person lacking in ambition wouldn't take it. I'd take the job if they asked me FFS!!
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 4784 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2020 | Dec 2019 | LINK |
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| Quote: Wigan Peer "As i said, rhetorical.... Once in a lifetime opportunity, only a person lacking in ambition wouldn't take it. I'd take the job if they asked me FFS!!'"
Very short-sighted. Always must weigh up the pros and cons. Also the 'once in a lifetime' label doesn't ring true. Who knows what else is on the horizon in the future. Intelligent decision is to also understand the full landscape and bigger picture.
To say 'only a person lacking in ambition wouldn't take it' is a over simplification and unneeded criticism.
Nevertheless I'm not saying he shouldn't take it, just that it's not always black and white.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 5846 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2006 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2024 | Jul 2024 | LINK |
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| Quote: Last Son of Wigan "Very short-sighted. Always must weigh up the pros and cons. Also the 'once in a lifetime' label doesn't ring true. Who knows what else is on the horizon in the future. Intelligent decision is to also understand the full landscape and bigger picture.
To say 'only a person lacking in ambition wouldn't take it' is a over simplification and unneeded criticism.
Nevertheless I'm not saying he shouldn't take it, just that it's not always black and white.'"
Do you have splinters in your ass off the fence?
No further comments from me m'lud.
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