Think you've got Cherry.Pie mixed up with cherrydevil

I have seen Pryce play plenty of times. As I said before I hope Pryce does become a world beater because he could be a very useful asset for England and we need all of the top quality players, particularly backs, that we can get. It is even better because he has already tried Union and failed so there is no danger of him going there. He has potential because of his size but so does Kevin Penny with his speed and elusiveness but that doesnt necessarily make them great players. I have just not seen anything in him that makes me think he is going to fulfil that potential.

I have compared both on defence. Pryce's defence has been better than Goulding, in fact Goulding's defence has been a problem and needed work for most of his senior career especially his positioning.

Goulding has been dropped before for his defence and if he is dropped on Saturday it will be because of his inferior defence to Pryce.

The fact you seem to be missing is that players and coaches target weak sides, which is why more traffic has been going that way, rugby league teams have a plan they have tactics it is not all a coincidence when team single out players.

Both have scored tries when have played on the wing, the simple fact is though Pryce has shown more consistency and less weakness in his defensive play, (and by the way having defensive positional weakness does not always lead to tries).

Out of interest why do you think his side has not been tested as much.

1) Because players can only pass to the left.

2) Because it is all a fluke and luck.

3)Because the coach has identified a side to attack.

4) Because the play makers are getting more joy down one side of the field.


Now for me it is 90% of the time a combination of 3 and 4, but you seem to feel it is a combination of 1 and 2.

Agreed, though 3&4 are mostly the same thing, really, 3 follows from 4. To some extent, weakness in defence will be identified, but mostly a coach will play to their strongest attacking side/player, irrespective of the opposition.

One thing that's pleased me about Wigan this season is our much improved right side attack (whether Roberts or Goulding is there), compared to last season, when we were very left-sided. That's nothing to do with opposition defences all weakening their left side defence.

This is once again largely your opinion though which you seem to dress up as fact. I suppose though if you repeat something often enough people may believe it and it does tend to become fact on these boards. You constantly drop little jibes or negatives in about Goulding like it somehow makes Pryce a better player. Why dont you compare him to Richards or Roberts? If Pryce is so good why has he been stuck in the u20s most of the year? Surely your coach knows the players better than anyone and is best placed to judge and up to now he has been choosing Goulding. It is therefore safe to say that he rates Goulding higher. Didnt Ainscough even get recalled before Pryce got a game? It doesnt seem that your coach rates Pryce too highly and only picked him as a last resort.

If Goulding was as bad as you say and at fault as much as you make out wouldnt he have been dropped in the last few weeks? There certainly wasnt anything wrong with Goulding's defence or positioning at Salford and from what I have seen of Wigan this year there hasnt been any there too, if there had he wouldnt have played the games he has. Even some of your fellow fans are saying you are wrong blaming Goulding for the tries you have and one poster says he has been at fault for only one. I have seen Pryce be at fault for at least one in the game against Huddersfield so there is no difference there. You just totally ignore the facts and anything that may not suit your argument. As a result it really is difficult to take your comparison seriously when you are obviously so biased. Has Goulding not given you his autograph or something as you really seem to have something against him?

I have already posted a whole range of reasons why teams may attack one side more than another and why there may be more tries on one side of the field, you just seem to be obsessed with taking one point in isolation, whilst ignoring the others, as you think you can argue against it and get out of the stupid posts that you have made previously. Looking at Wigan they attack far more down the left than the right, Salford do too, as do Leeds amongst others. It happens for a variety of reasons, regardless of opposition, and there is not a one size that fits all answer. What you completely fail to realise is that it is a team game and not all tries that are scored on the opposite side of the field are automatically that wingers fault, even if it is outside him, no matter how much you want them to be to suit your argument. Indeed more often than not it is the fault of those inside him.

Where do I start with this.

Firstly where have I said Goulding is a bad player? If you actually read this back all i have said he is a player who in first grade has struggled positionally in defence and it is something he has worked on but still has trouble with.

Secondly for some reason you were the one to start slating Pryce in this thread, without full knowledge of the facts, hence you stated if Goulding had struggled in defence he would have been dropped because of it....which he already had been.

Next Pryce has been out of action for over 2 years with injury, he has been playing in the reserves to find condition, confidence and form.

Next if Pryce plays tomorrow over Goulding will you accept you are wrong? I will if it is the other way round assuming both are fit.

Ainscough was fully fit when Pryce was selected ahead of him.

Pryce has played a handful of games in over 2 years. Richards and Roberts are experienced NRL superstars there is no point in comparing just as there is no point in comparing Goulding with them.

Some of my fellow Wigan fans do think Goulding should play ahead of Pryce, but most on here do not so if that is what you base the success of your debate on then it is at the moment about 10 to 1 against you.

The only reason you have given for why a team may attack one side is because they naturally attack to the left, that is all you have offered, in response I have stated in the pro game they can naturally pass both ways and the coach and play makers dictate where the emphasis of attack is, which is at the weak link, not because players can only pass to the left. (schoolboy analysis at its best).

I appreciate that if wingers get skinned it is not always their fault the slide is reliant on the inside push, but what is crucial is even when the inside push has been good Goulding has been caught out on occasion.

As for Gouldings time at Salford i am confident I know more about what your coaching staff felt about his time there and hit ability than you.

I will tell you what Cherry, lets see who plays tomorrow if Amos is fit.

rlhttps://www.wigantoday.net/sport/wigan-warriors/maguire_wants_amos_to_face_rhinos_1_776965rl

Mostly a great coach will play based on their opposition mate, not their 'strongest side'. That's why they spend countless hours on video analysis of the opposition, not to just ship the ball to their 'strongest side' regardless.

Of course, but that's what's why I said "to some extent". It's noticeable that Madge (rather more than other coaches) plays to our own strengths, while of course taking into account opponent's weaknesses.

Pre-Madge, as I pointed out, by far the most of our attacks went down the left (even more so when Hock was still with us). If your theory was true, it would indicate that practically every club in SL had a weaker right-side defence, which I don't believe is the case. We weren't attacking weaknesses, we were playing to our strengths.

Now, with the addition of Gleeson, and the improvements in Roberts & Goulding, we have a much more balanced attacking strength, which is why we're pretty much equallly split left/right. Again, if your theory were true, that right-side success would be a result of practically all SL clubs suddenly having weaker left side defences.

That's why i used the words, 'a great coach'

I don't feel we had a 'great coach' last season. So we didn't target opponents weaknesses as well as we do now, once we lost hock, we started to even things up a bit more as obviously the coach of the time felt it wasn't as clear cut which was our strongest side.

We absolutely definitely target weaknesses in the opponents side and don't just make it up off the cuff each match, nor do we follow the same patterns of play each and every match.

I'm really not sure what you're getting at tbh, you feel it's mainly 'strongest side', I feel it's at least equally opponents weaknesses (as a great coach tries to build a pretty side balanced squad to give him options)

Good point; neither do I!



Fair enough, I'd be happy to accept "equally"!

The original point I was debating was the reason sides were attacking our right, which some posters were trying to make out was all down to our defence, and nothing to do with their attacking strengths.

How can you possibly say Pryce has been more consistent when he has only played four games two of which were against poor opposition? Until he has played as many games as Goulding you can't say anything of the sort. Four games and consistency do not go together at all.

I am not having a pop at Pryce by the way but saying he has "shown more consistency and less weakness in his defensive play" on the back of four games one against an NL1 side and including the Crusaders is putting him on an unrealistic pedestal.

Dave

I dont know about anybody else but i have missed Cliffords team news updates.

Any News Clifford?

after a small warning last week I am a bit apprehensive to say!! All I will say is there are a couple of surprises! One which will be welcomed, the other I am not sure.

If anyone reads the other board then they will already know that Feka has been dropped as he is friends with someone who posts on there - so I am not telling you anything you dont know there. If you remember last week I posted that someone had been included in the team but couldnt play due to paperwork. Well he is possibly playing !!

Hope this doesnt offend anyone