Make that two of us Father! Couldn't agree more.

And judging by the attendances at the play-offs (especially v Saints 2011) there might be a few more of us out there.

The league is the only true barometer of success in the long term as cups have too much luck involved. No one will convince me that Wigan and Warrington haven't been the best two teams over the last two seasons, SL champions or not.

Only stat that matter trophies won. We can lead the statistics in every department but if we do not win a trophy it will be a poor season and the statistics will mean sod all.

Meaningless Stats.

I bet if you looked at Leeds stats vs Wigans last year, the Wigan stats would come out as more favourable.

Yet we won bugger all and Leeds are the champions.

This is the only stat that matters.

I agree, i did not say otherwise.

Really?

You have a very narrow and probably rather unfulfilled view of life and the game in that case.

Ever tried coaching any kids with that sort of attitude? (yours not theirs)

There are many "things that matter" my friend not just winning trophies.

You sound like the Wakefield of the world where taking part is all that matters because you know your methods is not good enough and you will never amount to anything in the game.

1 small point SL is not played by kids its played by professional athletes who play each game to win. And the goal is it win the Grand Final. What is yours for everyone to like you because you have a full life but an empty trophy room.

I have coached kids (RU not RL) and yes up to about U16 there are plenty important things other than just the win.

This isn't kids though and when they hit the U16's and later winning is very important so I am not sure of the relevance of any of this here.

I agree though the league is important. I pay my season ticket money expecting to be entertained and expecting to see my team win more often than lose. Entirely no point to going otherwise.

I also view the league and play-offs as separate. Maybe because my season ticket doesn't get me into the play offs!

I am also sure the clubs are grateful fans care about the league or there wouldn't be any clubs either.

At the end of the day though winning the league and nothing else won't keep Wane in a job no matter what the stats say.

Bugger me i agree.

The higher up is sports you go the bigger the reward the bigger the penalty. Its just unfortunate we have a game where you can win half your games in a season and still win 2 trophies.

Its about time the club rewarded the season ticket holders. Time to let them use the for the 1st play off game for free and the 2nd at half price. If we get a home game. I am not a season ticket holder but its embarrassing that so many seats are empty for those games. How much revenue would IL lose out on when we struggle to get 10k for them and many like me who do not have a season ticket do go to them if work allows it.

Sport is about winning / enjoyment / fulfilment / and playing within the rules (not cheating). Add that lot together and you have something worthy. I have enjoyed our Challenge Cups and Grand Final successes, but I still get a lot out of watching the team even if we lose. Of course winning trophies is what we aim for, but it's not the be-all-and-end-all.

Living your own life vicariously through the success of others can only lead to having an unfulfilled life I'm afrraid. So yes that would be more important than trophies.

Whether you like it or not Rugby league players do NOT have a win AT ALL costs attitude, and long may it continue, it's one of the reasons it's such a great game. If you want to see win-at-all-costs just watch professional football - diving to get players sent off, diving to win penalties, abusing the referee, cheating to gain any advantage however small - is commonplace.

And another small point. How patronising is your attitude towards Wakefield? Did you not go to the game last month and learn anything?

I think that is a good assessment of the different tactics and styles of coaching. I am concerned that under Mr Wane Wigan seem to panic in the pressure games, though I'd love to be proved wrong this year when they do the double. Unfortunately new coaches nearly always change the template to their own style, that is the nature of the beast. Ever heard a new coach in any team sport say "my predecessor got everything right and I am going to continue in the same vein?". Me neither.

Unless you know IL personally you can't know that. It's possible that he is more enlightened than you and will take a longer term view weighing up all of the good things SW has done and weighing up all the things he needs to improve and coming to a balanced decision for the good of the club, rather than take some nonsensical dogmatic approach.

You are right Euclid. I think the hope of many including myself saw the continuity argument as a big factor in endorsing the appointment of Wane. Despite what some one eyed fans think I supported the appointment of Wane. So continuity and the fact that it was working perfectly meant any new coach was better resisting too much change too soon. I believe even the likes of Monie and possibly Lowe largely observed for a month before making changes. The Dorahay era is the best example of tampering with a successful system.