You can't go telling clubs what they can and can't train their players - each and every club has its own agenda and the RFL could never tell them how to do things. So in that respect can England learn off Wigan? IMO No.

IMHO it comes down to something else - strength in depth.

You mention over-the-hill Aussies, and your right in mentioning them. These players are killing our game, they stop younger players coming through and developing. Yes they may come with a decent reputation and all that boll*x but to halt the path of a young eager, determined player is IMO just not acceptable, especially if said youth is good enough.

This was mentioned on here a week or two ago I think - the RFL should link up with the RFU and create a partnership at grassroots level, just encouraging kids to play rugby, be it RL or RU. This way both codes find talented youngsters, yes we'll lose some to RU but flip the coin and we gain some too. Alot of youngsters down south/midlands even up north just want to play sport (football being the obvious, but then more often than not rugby). Due to the lack of RL teams around they turn to RU, and pretty much stay there.

Now if the RFL and the RFU partnered, kids could play both, decide which is best for them and stick to it. Yeah this probably will cost money and take time to get going but honestly I seriously believe that a set-up such as this will seriously help RL in the long run.

I know some people will write this off without a thought, probably even the seemingly inept, expansion focused RFL.

Which brings me to my last point - the RFL are so caught up in expanding and improving other area's, even countries quality of RL that they are forgetting the one master key to really kicking on RL in the UK - a successful national team.

RU did it by winning the WC, Cricket team did it by winning the Ashes - look at them now, both sports are barely out of the news. Whereas RL National side is seen as a laughing stock.
Concentrate on England first and foremost, let the WRL and FRL worry about themselves IMHO.

Everyone agrees there are far too many imports and of a quality that does nothing for the progress of SL.
However, there are plenty imports who do a hell of a lot to improve SL.
Many imports are brought in as clubs don't have enough quality younger players coming through. These are a majority of clubs in SL.
Then there are the likes of Hull who have had a raft of younger players who in their first season look great then go backwards due to poor quality coaching at the club.
The Aussies are looking at replacing their salary cap with a points system which rewards clubs who bring through their own talent. Something like 4 points maximum for a club trained International whereas an International player from another club would be 7 or 8 points. I think the allocation was 100 points for the 17 named for a game.
As has been said, we either have to make allowances under our sal cap for club trained players or, alternativelty replace the SC as the Aussies are doing with a system that makes it essential that clubs have a majority of players taking the field who have been trained by that club.
We have a dearth of quality younger players coming through in SL and the clubs need to do something about it very soon.
If the Aussies increase their players numbers under the new system and we stand still things will get a lot worse than they were in Melbourne last weekend.
For anyone to suggest that other clubs in SL could learn from Wigan would bring a very hostile reception indeed.
They might well learn something from Wigan, to publicly admit it is another thing altogether.

Wigan have just signed three Aussies. Their ages don't matter. They've signed them and at least one will likely be playing in a position where England are desparate for 'strength in depth' (halfback). On top of that, Wigan will be competing with one Aussie winger and an antipodean fullback. Both are positions in which England have no players of the right ability.

Is this what you all mean by learning from Wigan?

Poor effort.

At least all the key British players we've got are prepared to play for their country. That's one reason why the game could learn from us rather than from St Helens.

On top of that we will be competing with 10 home grown first team regulars, 4 englishmen (2 from wigan), and possibly up to 10 extra home grown fringe players.

Yes thats what we mean by learning from Wigan.

Really? Not one St Helens player has turned down the opportunity to play for his country.

Really?

Next season we will have two Aussies and three Samoans in our squad. That is in our whole squad. Of the squad minus our leavers from this season, 19 will be home grown. At present our squad will have 31 players (including the one young player I know that has been promoted for 2011). All of them bar the newbie have played at first grade and/or are first choice in their positions, regardless of age. As the media said, Saints are leading the way on playing home grown players for the third year running. It's Saints that the English game can learn from in this respect, not Wigan. Because without clubs bringing through English talent into a first team environment, especially in the backline, there is no hope of England winning on the international scene.

I can't comment on the coach situation because we have just ditched a poor one and are waiting to see what the new one brings. He's keen on skills training though, so that could be something else the English game could learn from Saints. However, that remains to be seen.

Another pious Saints twit who seriously expects the world to believe that Saints are somehow of superior moral quality to everyone else (when the real truth behind his club's lack of overseas signing is because they haven't got the money for it).

Wigan are bringing through plenty of kids as well. So that's the end of that conversation. But the main point of this thread was not about that, and it was not difficult to understand. Wigan have won the Grand Final with a team which, last year, was the ultimate bunch of also-rans. They made very little go a long way through superlative coaching, conditioning, backroom organisation, etc. If it worked for us, perhaps it can work across the game. That's all the guy was really saying. But then, given the bloke you've appointed to oversee that part of your operation, it doesn't surprise me that you've failed to grasp this

Pity you don't get a trophy for that.

So basically you think you are superior and better because you have a massive 2 less overseas players than us



Have you even read the original post?

Its not all about investing in youth.

But the original poster referred to "over the hill Aussies". Ryan Hoffman and Brett Finch are hardly over the hill and Jeff Lima is a Kiwi who is an excellent player in his own right. If you bother to read the original post and the other posts some posters have made, top quality aussies aren't killing our game or holding us back. In fact, Aussies of a high quality actually improve our competition and our own players. They provide tougher competition and can pass on some of their own experience ot the younger players at clubs. Many of our back row forwards have sighted Phil Bailey as having a massive influence on their careers & Wigan now currently have some of (if not the) best back row forwards in the game. Another example is Sam Tomkins who sights Trent Barrett has having a major influence upon his game.