So he was dirty under Wane and when he played for Wigan but not now he plays for McNamara and Catalans. Thank goodness the poor lad managed to escape those bad influences on him.

The disciplinary have really cracked down on players since the start of 2022. In that time Micky Mac has been charged 4 times, whereas Morgan Knowles has been charged 10 times (actually charged, not just looked at). I still think Micky Mac carries a tag of being a dirty player, especially if you read some Saints fans comments after you play Catalans. He's had less than half the charges handed out to Knowles and less than Matautia (icon_cool.gif, Sironen (icon_cool.gif and Lees (5). Also in that time, Wigan have seen Smithies charged 3 times, Ellis 3 times, Isa twice and Powell once.

Makes you think doesn't it...

Joking aside, whilst I enjoyed the drama of the appeal and then the appeal against the failed appeal I have no real issues with Lees copping a ban under the current rules. I think it was a great shot but given the guidelines I can see why he was charged.

I just think this "dirty" tag under this current Saints team under Wellens is unfair thats all.

So you don't think the Wigan team under Wane pushed rules to their limits?

Even though we got charged nowhere near as much as this current Saints team, I don't have an issue if people think we did. We took the criticism, we took our bans and we moved on. No conspiracy theories, no appealing appeals on technicalities, no coach made out they had a real desire to ensure player safety across the game, while his team commits the most offences and so on.

Come on mate Wane was no shrinking violet. Many a time he's called out incidents and criticised other clubs/coaches. You only have to watch the video of his pre-match team talk against the Roosters to see what he was like.

I don’t think that’s right lol, unless I’m getting mixed up with the other time it happened to Leeds but I only remember reading the Martin minutes. It explained why the appeal was deemed as frivolous.

They can’t just decide an appeal is frivolous based on “this was a fair ban” because A) that’s a completely subjective line that can’t be enforced in any kind of procedural manner and B) they can’t give a punishment for appealing any ban, as that would invite legal repercussions especially with fines involved

You have to have an appeals procedure in these things, and clubs/players have to be able to use them without fear of repercussions. As long as you are appealing an aspect of the charge (IE, guilt or grading) then you will never get deemed it to be a frivolous appeal. You can’t appeal just to try and get them to reduce the ban as that can’t be done if the grading and guilt are correct.

To be fair, the MRP weren’t dishing out bans to anything that moved at the time either, so there was much less of this circus.

I don't remember him calling out foul play against us very often, criticising the disciplinary officials or being part of a process of appealing failed appeals tbh. He clearly instilled aggression and was very open about it, as the WCC coverage highlights. In other words he owned it and that meant we just moved on and didn't go round and round in circles calling conspiracies or having a public battle with the RFL.

If I had a pound for every time a Saints fan called that Wigan team dirty, I'd be extremely rich but we now have a Saints team, who are being pulled by the disciplinary far more often but it's everyone else's fault. We go round and round the houses and the main point gets almost forgotten-Saints have 4 players who can't stop committing offences. It's that simple! Until that changes (or if Saints decide to own it and stop bleating about it), bans will keep coming and accusations of being a dirty team will keep rolling in. Wellens making himself look slightly hypocritical these past 3 weeks is an amusing side show.

Very true but why have Knowles, Matatautia, Sironen and Lees being charged 10, 8, 8 and 5 times respectively since the start of 2022, whereas Saints fans 'dirty, grubby, filthy' punchbags in Micky Mac and Morgan Smithies been charged only 4 times and 3 times?

Conspiracy? Witch hunt? A total anomaly? or are they just cleaner players?

You've completely misunderstood what I was saying.

I meant pushing the boundaries by using loopholes etc. to their own benefit regardless of the validity...you may even say fairness...of what they are doing. I'm specifically referring to appealing appeals, using COVID rules etc. to their advantage. Lees was worthy of a ban. Trying to get it overturned on a loophole is against the spirit of the game. Recognise that principle Stu?

For what it's worth I think the RFL is becoming increasingly incompetent in these matters which is why I added the last sentences.

Apology accepted...

Double post

And just as an addendum, please quote where I said the Kade Ellis quarter final was "nothing in it" (sic). I've repeatedly said I was fine with both the sending off and subsequent ban.

I'm less ok with it when similar incidents have now become "head rutting" with no punishment whatsoever.

I'm even less ok when straw man arguments are used about what I did and didn't say.

The Shorrocks one, however, WAS nothing in it. It's been said by fans across the board, ex referees etc that it was an incorrect decision. It was, by far, a more inappropriate ban than the Lees one. It was accepted by Wigan. I'm confident you get the point I'm making here Stu?

Thats my point. I think those 4 players have stopped by and large. Since the Halifax CC game, Knowles has most certainly improved his dsicipline, so too Sironen. Lees hadn't been in trouble for a while before Sunday so there's only really Matautia who seems to be unable to adapt and learn his lesson.

There's no doubt that our discipline has improved as evidenced by the number of charges/bans of late compared to last season and the first part of this season.

They’ve obviously done better at cleaning up their game and learning lessons from the disciplinary I guess. Mickey Mac is nowhere near as bad as he used to be. I do think what stu says is right, if the disciplinary was like this back when Mickey was playing under wane, he’d probably be getting cited with Knowles’ frequency now, but I think he’s evolved a lot as a player since then. It’s also obviously a vicious cycle, people like knowles and Mata’autia are getting cited for more and being treated more severely than others for the same things because their reputation is counting against them (which is fair enough on the most part)

I don’t watch much of smithies so no clue on that front!

Fair enough, you personally didn't say it but I meant Wigan fans in general.

And to be fair I think a Wigan fan accusing us of doing things not in the spirit of the game is a little hypocritical.

Remember the Stuart Fielden signing?