I didn’t have high expectations, due to the loss of Tomkins and Bateman and the raft of inevitable changes post Wane but whether I/you had high expectations or not is irrelevant really.

In the context of how we’ve played, we’ve had some great spells and looked on fire at times with our attacking display. But it’s also looked poor, clueless and all over the place too. Sometimes all in the same game, so in that respect I do agree with you.

Defensively we’re nowhere near 2018 levels. We’re not moving off the line, failing to put the attacker on his back most of the time or even on the floor sometimes.

But we are also 2nd in the league 80mins away from OT and an unlikely GF win. If our attack and D has been as poor as we’re saying or making out, surely we wouldn’t be here?

It is really rather extraordinary. We’re keen to criticise but the criticism doesn’t stand up when you compare it to where we are and the teams that finished below us.

I've seen people on this forum earlier this season, say they've seen "scintillating" rugby from us this season. They're watching a different game to me, before the individual talent of French came along at any rate.

I've seen our attack stagnate at best, and our defence regress considerably this season. Both of which is evidenced in our points for and against.

Guess some people have just been happy to see the back of Wane.

I mentioned expectations as you said you didn’t expect much for this season. I still did regardless of our losses.

You make a good point regarding how we’ve not played consistently well yet found ourselves 80mins from a GF.
I think it’s a combination of having enough to win games despite not playing well and the general standard of the league being poor.

Look at the main contenders...Wigan, Saints, Wire and Leeds.
Saints seem to have learnt from last season and have kicked on, whereas Wire imploded and Leeds are no where near as good as they were several seasons ago when they had the links of Peacock, Sinfield etc.
Teams just aren’t as good...standards in SL have fallen overall, due to this we’ve been able to maintain winning without playing well

I agree. At times I don’t know what people are watching and what they are comparing our level too. I watch the NRL week in week out, it reminds me what good rugby looks like.

Do you think good rugby is entertaining? I sometimes worry that we've got to a point where the most effective way to win is the most conservative way. For example I've seen quite a bit of championship this year and found it more entertaining than SL and NRL, even though the skill level obviously isn't as good.

Not knocking Wane, Lam or anyone in particular but watching some of the playoff highlights from 2000-2001 on Wigan TV - the gap in quality between then and now is enormous. Forget comparisons with the NRL, how has the SL fallen so far below its own previous standards?

The lesser lights wanted a salary cap, got their way and brought the top teams down a couple of notches, rather than them having to try and raise their standards. We now get some of them in the play offs or even topping the table but our best players have gone down under and we’ve fallen way behind the NRL. We now don’t have the money to do anything about it.

Maybe I'm boring, but I actually enjoy the tough/defensive approach to the game.

Madge was the pinnacle imo. He had a tough style that was executed, along with the basics, extremely well on a consistent basis.

I saw it too and, like you wondered what rugby they where watching

Sorry Nicky but imo IL is as keen on the cap as any other owner.

Good rugby is the best. Take Saints last Friday for example. Props running hard, great movement out the back, crisp passing, players running the right lines, good tactics and plenty of tries.
It was good rugby, and while we were all watching our own team implode, Saints fans were in ore and full of praise watching their own team play good rugby.

Good rugby is always the best to watch, at times we’ve seen some amazing performances from past Wigan teams and individual brilliance; so yes. Good rugby is more than entertaining, it makes memories for a life time.

I don’t know to be honest. When there’s a decline there’s often several factors which all contribute.

You’re not boring I agree mate. Tough D is great to watch. Fast line speed, crunching tackles all raise the intensity of the game. We’ve all heard the crowd cheer and chant the teams name after a big shot or watching us knock the other team back with fast line speed and gang tackling. It’s a joy to watch.

Additionally good D forces the opposition to be better, they have to produce better rugby to overcome the tough D to win.

One of the best games was the Widnes game v Wigan that Wigan won,if I recal rightly 7-0,it was fascinating to watch,even if the weather that night wasn’t the best

Totally agree.
Defence can be a joy to watch, every winning team has to be good in D, speed off the line, gang tackling, big hits, the last minute one and one try saver, all very entertaining.