Here's a Wane quote, definitely the words of a man who learns nothing from his peers...

“I wanted to make sure I got every ounce of wisdom out of him. I had no idea if we’d meet again so I recorded everything he said and still listen to it regularly.

“Speaking to him has absolutely had an effect on my coaching career and the way I approach my job. He’s an incredible man.”

Correct. People's criticism of SW is based on losing two semis against Leeds SL Champions of 5 out of the last 7 years. SW took over a team from Madge that lost two play off games against Saints. Why would he not think he could - indeed SHOULD - try at least to improve on that? Madge was able to buy three high profile players from Storm a luxury not afforded to SW who has lost Joel, Finch, Tommy, Hoffman, Deacon, Coley, Lima, Riddell, George. Tell me a coach who has had to deal with losing that level of talent often without adequate or even ANY replacement. So he had to develop youngsters, that lets not forget HE brought through!

Secretly a lot of the SW bashers will be pleased if Wigan win nothing this year as they will be vindicated. Fans throughout the game would not believe the sort of criticism that SW receives from his own; Criticised for playing the most exciting brand of rugby in the league, criticised for trying to win every game, criticised for speaking his mind to the press instead of just saying nothing, criticised for training too hard despite being the fittest team in the league, criticised for getting rid of a player who took a two year ban then wanted out, criticised for paying too much attention to Saints games, criticised for winning games too easily, criticed for NOT winning games too easily!!! The list goes on and on.

God help us if we were in Saints position, the same team who beat Madge in his last game. How have they done over the last two years?

Stop and smell the roses guys, if you haven't enjoyed the quality of Wigan's play over the last two years I feel genuinely sorry for you.

By the way I'm wondering who this mythical coach is who gets all these things right? No doubt you all think that Brian McDermott should be approached, then again Brian Noble has a pretty good record of WINNING things doesn't he? Maybe....

We cannot judge Wane until the end of the season.

IF Wigan tail off and don't make a final (i.e. same as last year) then he has failed. No discussions.

If he makes a final then jury is out

If he wins one then it's a tick for me

If he wins two then he get's a gold star

Sounds reasonable enough if you ONLY look at results. Might there be mitigating circumstances?

Luck? - Bounce of the ball/brainstorms by otherwise good players/Ref decisions/
Injuries? - losing his best player (s)
Quality of play? - potential for improvement

Let's say he goes into a semi without Sam/Sean/Micky Mac then the ref makes poor decisions on crucial plays and we lose by one point (not unlikely) - do you blame SW and look for someone else or do you do the reasonable thing and say - "well you've won the league/you've brought youngsters through in place of seasoned internationals who have left/you've shown us enough to suggest that with better fortune we could have won"

On that basis do you give him another year.

If you say NO than I'll bet Man U fans are glad you weren't around in 1989 (sorry to use a football analogy - but it's just so good an example of people offering the benefit of the doubt and backing their judgement rather than the thousands of examples when they do the knee-jerk thing and sack the coach)

All fair points but he's HAD a year, this will be his second.........

If he was building a team up from scratch then I would agree with you, but he wasn't- he inherited a Championship winning team, knew the players, knew the coaching style etc etc etc

Wigan made more metres under Wane in 2012 than they did under McGuire in 2010 or 2011 Wigan made more tackle under Wane in 2012 than they did under McGuire in 2010 or 2011 Wigan missed more tackles under Wane in 2012 than they did under McGuire in 2010 but less than under McGuire in 2011. Wigans points difference under Wane in 2012 is better than under McGuire in 2010 or 2011, although points conceded is up slightly than under McGuire. Wigan made more tackle busts AND clean breaks under Wane in 2012 than they did under McGuire in 2010 or 2011. www.superleague.co.uk/stats/clubstats

Wigan made more metres under Wane in 2012 than they did under McGuire in 2010 or 2011 Wigan made more tackle under Wane in 2012 than they did under McGuire in 2010 or 2011 Wigan missed more tackles under Wane in 2012 than they did under McGuire in 2010 but less than under McGuire in 2011. Wigans points difference under Wane in 2012 is better than under McGuire in 2010 or 2011, although points conceded is up slightly than under McGuire. Wigan made more tackle busts AND clean breaks under Wane in 2012 than they did under McGuire in 2010 or 2011. www.superleague.co.uk/stats/clubstats

Wigan made more metres under Wane in 2012 than they did under McGuire in 2010 or 2011 Wigan made more tackle under Wane in 2012 than they did under McGuire in 2010 or 2011 Wigan missed more tackles under Wane in 2012 than they did under McGuire in 2010 but less than under McGuire in 2011. Wigans points difference under Wane in 2012 is better than under McGuire in 2010 or 2011, although points conceded is up slightly than under McGuire. Wigan made more tackle busts AND clean breaks under Wane in 2012 than they did under McGuire in 2010 or 2011. www.superleague.co.uk/stats/clubstats

Wigan made more metres under Wane in 2012 than they did under McGuire in 2010 or 2011 Wigan made more tackle under Wane in 2012 than they did under McGuire in 2010 or 2011 Wigan missed more tackles under Wane in 2012 than they did under McGuire in 2010 but less than under McGuire in 2011. Wigans points difference under Wane in 2012 is better than under McGuire in 2010 or 2011, although points conceded is up slightly than under McGuire. Wigan made more tackle busts AND clean breaks under Wane in 2012 than they did under McGuire in 2010 or 2011. www.superleague.co.uk/stats/clubstats

I think you are being a little unfair. How many of the Championship winning team under Madge have left?

(Gleeson, Carmont, Deacon, Tommy, Coley, Riddell, Joel, then add Finch, Lima, Hoffman, Roberts off the top of my head, I've probably forgotten someone)

Most people would say that he HAS pretty much built up this team from scratch (although granted Sam and SOL are pretty decent starting blocks)

Madge also had the benefit of having 3 very experienced Aussies dropping in his lap unexpectedly.

It's all well and good doing slightly better on an average week, but it's the games that matter that we should be focusing on. I don't have the metres or tackles stats but let's look at results in the knock out games against top 5 sides (I've included the WCC too):

Maguire - P8 W5 L3
2010
Leeds (A) - Lost 10-12
Leeds (A) - Won 26-6
St Helens (N) - Won 22-10

2011
St George (H) - Lost 15-21
Warrington (A) - Won 44-24
St Helens (N) - Won 18-12
Leeds (N) - Won 28-18
St Helens (A) - Lost 18-26

Wane - P3 W1 L2
St Helens (H) - Won 18-4
Leeds (N) - Lost 28-39
Leeds (H) - Lost 12-13

While Wane's record isn't great right now, I do feel it's too early to make big judgements about his ability to win big games. He's only coached us in 3 and he won one of them, and was only a point away from winning another despite having to do so without the services of Sam Tomkins (something Maguire never had to deal with). Like BK says, the jury is out now, but if we get knocked out of the CC as soon as we meet the winner of that Hudds/Wire game, then lose the first big knock out game of the play offs, it becomes very hard to make a case for Wane.

Evidence of what? I'm happy with Wane despite my initial misgivings. Picking up Madge's chalice was a risky proposition despite what Madge may have left behind for SW to inherit. However, no amount of stats will convince me that SW is a better coach than Madge.

Evidence of some of the things being said in this thread (not necessary by you), are not based on fact.

No one would seriously argue that point even SWs biggest apologist. But surely the question is - Is it fair/sensible to offer SW another year on his contract - regardless of his relative merits against Madge. At the moment there is enough evidence to suggest that it WOULD be reasonable to offer another year. And if he wins SL then offer 3 years.

IMO even if we win nothing he deserves another year, and unless we can get a top coach - Madge wants to return, which I doubt or Sean Edwards or Andy Farrell fancy returning from the dark side - then stick with what you've got.

Isn't there enough evidence from the past 15 years to suggest IT COULD GET A WHOLE LOT WORSE!!!

JJ
That wasn't the point I was making. We are playing a slightly different game (more attractive?) under Wane. Wane has lost a LOT of experience, and IMO is doing o.k.

Could he do better, of course, but then so could have Madge.
Wane was Brett Finch brainfart away from getting us to the GF last year, but he lost and he's in the minus column.

IF he gets us to Wembley and/or the GF this year then he will get in the plus column.
If he fails to get to either then I wouldn't be surprised to see him replaced, although IMO that's necessarily the right move, it would depend on who was available.

Although what all of this has to do with Andy Powell I'm not sure, but it appears the usual suspects have driven it this way.