Ill second those comments about Halibut, he's the worst ref in the league but the rfl seem to love the romance of having a french ref, shouldn't be anywhere near superleague, "we want ganson"!.

Some of us still do

Indeed. Wasn't there an incident where Matt King flicked the "v"'s at Wire fans who were giving him grief IIRC?

From the time he ripped us apart in the CC Semi he has never looked back really. When is he due back from injury?

Lima works hard and finds the ground for quick PTB I'll give him that but he doesn't seem to make any decent metres at all with ball in hand with Coley, Prescott and even Mossop laying a platform for us making it easier. Having little go forward was a reason we lost the game and Lima doesn't look particularly brilliant.

I know Fielden had this problem at the club and I was critical of him but Fielden always seemed to run at the biggest blokes on the field. I was frustrated when I saw Mick Monaghan tackle Lima one-on-one on Friday night, especially seeing as he is a prop.

Hopefully I'll be wrong about his contribution and will be happy to eat humble pie but atm I can't see it.

Interestingly, statistically he's our best prop -

Lima

Apps - 5
Carries - 69
Metres - 485
Metres per carry - 7.02

Coley

Apps - 6
Carries - 65
Metres - 405
Metres per carry - 6.23

Prescott

Apps - 6
Carries - 79
Metres - 519
Metres per carry - 6.56

So not only does Lima make more metres per carry, he takes the ball up more on average than the others.

Not bad for someone who many think hasn't hit form yet...

Lima was Wigans top metre maker on Friday with 123, which is exactly what we needed after Feka.

Statistics are not always what they seem to be. Lima got some pretty big run ups in the Wire game which the likes of our 'plodder' props did not which probably improves the metres gained.

Either way, its a difference of opinion and I'm personally slightly disappointed with our go forward so far this season and see Lima as a weaker prop forward than our others. Hopefully he'll change my opinion

He can't win can he?

You accuse him of not making the metres of other props, and when shown that he makes more, find an excuse for it!

Lima is doing a job for Wigan in that he takes the ball up two or more times per set. I think he's going well.

I already said it earlier in the thread I believe, but I genuinely think you're expecting way too much of him.

You can have big buys like Feka who are so big and bulky that they have huge momentum and swat off defenders and make enormous individual carries of the ball. Or you can have someone who does a consistent job, over a longer more sustained period of time, ultimately gaining the team more metres in total.

There is a space for both types of player in a pack in SL today, but you can't expect someone to fill both roles, it's just unreasonable of you to do so.

Personally I reckon Lima for you fits the latter mould, yes a big burst up field making a great amount of ground forward can be of enormous benefit within an individual attacking set of 6, but don't underestimate the value of a player who makes good (not fantastic) ground forward and wins you a quick PTB. (You do of course need a hooker sharp enough there to take advantage of a quick PTB but that's a separate issue).

Bit early for Finch in my opinion. He's a class player, no doubt about that. But anybody would struggle a little coming into a big game like that with no match fitness.

I thought we were very good in all aspects on friday, particularly defence. And as much as Wigan fans won't admit it, I honestly dont think there was that much between the sides. And there won't be when we meet again later in the year.

Looks like Jeff is the new scapegoat.

So far for me, he's done pretty much what Fielden does..........the hard graft that goes un-noticed.

I agree with the above statement but we already have prop forwards who can do that job for us effectively. What Wigan need is a prop that makes more headway similar to Morley or Carvell which we do not have currently. I may have been harsh in using the term 'crap' earlier, he does find the ground well for quicker PTB's but for a man who counts as an overseas player with probably a decent amount of salary cap money I don't think, so far, its money well spent simply because we have other players who can do that job already at the club.

Lima isn’t doing anything different than what he did for the Storm.

He’s a hard worker in both attack and defence but he’s certainly not a barnstormer and never has been either.

He’s fitted in perfectly with our other sets of props and for me when Hock and Fielden return we’ll have the best pack in SL.

I’ve absolutely no issues with how our pack has played this season.

Hoffman has been superb,
Faz, Mossop & Prescott have all kicked on and fulfilling their potential.
Lima, Coley and Hansen are all working hard and doing their jobs as well as anyone could ask.
Lockers has been excellent seeing he’s been asked to play HB and LF this season. He was my MOM against Hudds and turned the game vs Hull.
Mcilorum will get better week after week but we’ve still got Tommy to move there as Finch is back.

+1 its our backs that arent finishing the job.