Agree with what you say Ted about the struggle forwards have had in the past, but one name that challenged that theory was Mike Coulman at Salford in the 70s.
If ever anything was against Mike it was is background, he came from one of the old establishment Clubs of English rugby(Mosley) and even though he had 9 caps at RU for England at prop he took to RL like a duck to water.
The idea of English RU props only being able to amble from scrum to scrum was shot to ribbons, he was big, strong and he could really motor.

Edit. Should be a reply to Fleabag and Not Ted.

Given the contracts structure and the ethos Hethrington has put in place at Leeds I have no problems believing he would just let a player see his contract out. Radlinski talked about this in a column in one of the match day programs recently. There was a conference where clubs exchanged ideas and Hethrington made a presentation about the way Leeds do things in this regard. Their players know the wage structure and know what they have to do to earn more money. There is no banging on the chairman's door for raise because of what another player gets etc. With such an environment where everyone knows where they stand I think its much easier to tell a player he's going nowhere until his contracts up then it is at Wigan where clearly every player has a price.

Every player is also replaceable.

Not done too bad the last few seasons have we? Come on Dave it's getting boring this now.

I think most top class flankers and number 8's in union would do very well in league. Basically a union backrow player needs pace stamina and a mean defence. Most that have crossed from Union to League have done well. It's far more difficult for a League player to go to Union due to the more technical element of the game.

It would take a very brave League coach to bring a union back to play in the halves or at 1 in the modern game.

I doubt very much Sam's replacement will be a green union player for expample.

If he was five years younger maybe. If we get two years out of his deal with him as an effective addition to the squad I'd be surprised. Given his vintage it's hard to see past the publicity angle (such as it is when we sign an RU player approaching the end of his career).

On the other hand I have been genuinely excited at watching Burke play this season. What a prospect he is and far more interesting to see how he develops over the coming couple of seasons than Powell for me. Powell is just a short term distraction.

It really isn't saying much trotting out platitudes like that is it?

And what has how we have done over the past few seasons got to do with what is happening now? The quality of the team and the trophies in 2010/11 were great. Since then the squad has slowly been bleeding talent as top class players leave and we replace them with lower quality or youngsters. The new players may still be good enough to keep us high in the league but it really would be head in the sand time to suggest we can lose players like we have done (and are due to) and retain the quality on show. You may be satisfied by being the best in poorer quality competition but ultimately that just masks the problem.

What exactly is it you want? SL isn't what it was, no. But as long as Wigan RLFC are winning trophies then ultimately, that's what it's all about. Blame the salary cap for the loss of young players not IL. Jesus, I'd take a pay cut to go to Australia never mind more money! Not to mention the lifestyle. To blame IL for mossop is ridiculous. As a club over the past few seasons we have won trophies, and developed top class young players more than any other club. Our recruitment under this cap has been 10/10. What more do you want???

Get in shape what way? He's a professional rugby athlete and his fitness levels will be of the highest order.

Union isn't in RL's shadow when it comes to the latest fitness and medical advance's anymore. With Powell being a top RU international and a Lions tourist he will have had access to some of the worlds best fitness coaches.

Let's not forget which sport we got Bitcon from.

What you describe sounds interesting, but doesn't sound as if it would be any more resistant to a massive-money raid by the NRL than the system Wigan use.

The Leeds players know the wage structure and what they have to do to make more. Okay. They presumably also know - or soon will - what they'll have to do to make an awful lot more. And under the current state of affairs, that won't involve staying at Leeds.

As for the stuff about making them sit out their contracts. Let's remember the 'good old days' where players were frozen out of the game, usually because their clubs refused to grant them a transfer. Brian Case was ages out of the game because Warrington wouldn't sell him and he fell out with them as a result. That wouldn't happen now because the player in question would only have to wait until his contract had run out - at which point his club, having had no benefit from him on the field, would gain no financial benefit either. Lose-lose all round.

I'd be wary of using Leeds to illustrate your argument, Dave. It could all come crashing down.

Exactly what I see happening in a PR move as well as a fitness thing.

Happy with the Mossop, Hock and Sam news (rather they went to the NRL than to RU as they'll be better players for it). I'll stay reserved on the Long move.

Deep apologies to all fans based on my previous post which was slightly negative.

I have since realised that the mission of Wigan RL is to be a feeder club for the NRL.

In future, I will rejoice in every player we can export to Australia because it will mean Wigan and Super League gets ever weaker for every player we export.

The way I see it:

Player is developed by Wigan and moves to NRL

Player plays against better players week in week out and has better training thus becoming a better player. This boosts the chances of England/GB of beating the Aussies (how many times have we been close and ran out of steam? If our best players are as fit as theirs we have a better chance)

When player moves to NRL, another off the Wigan production line steps up and in turn becomes a better player


Of course that's my opinion, but I see it as Mossop heading to the NRL to mix it up with some of the best in the World each week which as I say will hopefully help England/GB. When he goes it then allows players such as Dom Crosby to step up into the starting 4 with players like Spencer and now Greenwood getting more game time and hopefully becoming better players as we've seen with Dudson and now Crosby.

Would we prefer:

Player is developed by Wigan and moves to RU never to be seen again in RL circles?

How can you stop a young player wanting to try out the NRL?
The best RL comp in the world, a higher salary, a higher profile than in the UK, not to mention the weather / lifestyle...etc!

The options to go to the NRL weren't really there in the days when Lockers, Hansen, Fielden broke through (but for a select few - Morley..etc).

But it now seems any decent RL player could gain a chance of a gig....really what's not to think about as a player in their early to mid twenties???

I am sure they do know that. But I really do think if you have a very structured environment as they do at Leeds players will not only not be able to negotiate better wages when they feel like it but won't be able to negotiate an early exit from a contract just because someone has waved the cheque book. It all depends on the clubs view on transfer fees. Do they want them or not? Hethringron by his statement implies not because clearly his young star players could leave for nowt in a a few years. It will be interesting to see if that is how it pans out.



Brian Case was one of my favourite players but that pre-bosman situation is long gone. There is no question of players sitting out the game. Contracts are for the most part short. Two or three years. FIve year deals for young players like Mossop, Sam and Faz are hardly stones around their neck



I don't like a lot of what Hethrington does but based on what Rads reported in his article he has got the wages structure right at Leeds in the post Bosman world we live in. I think it makes it more likely he will hold players to deals. If it doesn't pan out that way that is something he will have to explain to his fans after his statements this week.

In any case it would be very boring if everyone on here was scared of being wrong. I'm certainly not, are you?