Yep not for the first time the bloke has been a liability

Just spent 2 mins reading redvee (its all i could stand), typically gracious comments as you would expect

They never change to they lol

For me he's the one whose place is most under threat next season, with Bateman back and hopefully Havard back to fitness I'd have Isa, Partington and Shorrocks in front of him, Smithies is a grafter no doubt but he's always going to have a brain fart in him and IMO he offers very little in attack.

He’s VERY limited in what he does and I don’t think we have room for him and Shorrocks who is equally the same.

You could point at any number of things - how about Farrell's two high shots? One pit us on the back foot for the first 10 minutes and the other put Saints in our 20 with 10 minutes to go.

Poor discipline and lack of go forward caused by poor recruitment are probably the main two factors for me.

But I still find it very hard to criticise - I thought we played well and the effort was huge.

We did. We were superb in fact.

However, we still lost due to our mistakes. We can't just brush them all under the carpet because we played well.

Effort was huge, but it was a game devoid of skill.

Some people have text me since full time telling me what a great advert for the game it was. I haven't had the heart to text them back.

Are you suggesting it was a poor game?

I'd say errors were pretty minimal from both sides from memory, and any form of attack was just shut out by quality defence.

I'd watch a game like that 50 times before I would watch a 30 point rout or a game where sides forget to tackle.

No, I'm not suggesting it was a poor game to watch.

There was a distinct lack of skill on display though. St Helens in particular had no idea how to break down our defence despite their domination.

I was amazed that Tommy's shot on Graham was not penalised. Those are the breaks.

Of all the replays I’ve watched, the best bit is Makinson running up to Partington after the video ref gives the try. It’s quality. A golden boot to a nobody.

I'd have Makinson here in a heartbeat, 20+ tries a year guaranteed, it must be so frustrating playing for a barge it up the middle mob like Saints

I worry about people who join forums and know sweet FA about the topic. But if you stay round long enough and get that big chip off your shoulder then you might learn something. If you want a good starting point have a look at the history books that cover rugby league, there you will regularly see the name of the greatest rugby team in history, I'll give you a tip it is not Saints. By the way, I would have been worried about Makinson running up to me given his past form.

Typical you've just won grand final and more interested in winding a wigan player up ,just confirms your obsession with all things wigan