There is playing behind a beaten pack and excelling. A good few great players have done that.

There is playing behind a beaten pack and still having a dig.

Then there is playing behind a beaten pack and being anonymous.

Smith is the latter at the moment.

Again.....ours isn't a beaten pack. It's a pack that can't make 30 yards a set.

I'm not saying Smith is great, but I'm also not going to write him off when playing as the 2nd half behind this codswallop.

Where is his fight?

I can’t imagine any other quality half just vanish during games like he does.

Fight? Does anyone in our side have that?

He gets the ball deep inside our half, 2nd or 3rd man, with no runners. What is he meant to do??

Again...not saying he's great but even Hastings looks garbage at times behind our pack hence why we have failed to score in however many halves of rugby it was.

I believe there is a player in there with Smith having seen him in the academy. Maybe i'm wrong, but I really don't want to judge him based on the he is sat behind this season.

Why is our half back getting the ball at 2nd or 3rd man?

I actually don’t think he is but even if he was it’s not acceptable.


Hastings looks garbage?!

I don’t think you understand what is going on.

Smith offers 0 threat. Literally non.

Hastings offers all the threat. All of it.

Wherever Hastings goes the defence can number up.

Defences do not need to number up on Smith because he literally offers bugger all.

On current form I genuinely believe Smith is the worst half in SL.

As for our youngsters, KPP is clearly a real talent, who Wigan should do their damnest to hang on to. Shorrocks is a useful squad player who can fill in at a few positions, but has been over-played. Havard is a bit of an enigma; there's a great player in there, but I'm not sure it's ever coming out. Smithies, Partington and Byrne, I'm less and and less convinced about. And reluctantly, I'm putting Smith in that category too. There's been a few games lately where our forwards haven't been particularly dominated, and we've had a decent amount of field position, but I don't recall Smith taking these games by the scruff of the neck. He just looks to have too many errors and poor decisions in him for me.

What’s Smith doing that differs in any way from Joe Mellor at Leigh for example? And that’s after a good few knee injuries too. I think we all want Smith to do well but how long does he get a free pass from criticism? It’s the nature of the beast being a halfback no matter what age. He needs to at least have one facet of the game locked in and I couldn’t tell you what he’s actually good at for a two game stretch, never mind a run of games.

Who has taken those games by the scruff of the neck?

Again...not saying he isn't due some criticism but I don't see what he can do behind a pack literally getting killed. Hastings is our only threat? We have failed to score in 7 halves of rugby and have scored about 20 points in the other 7 halves.

That can't all be down to smith.

He’s got a great kicking game…..if putting it out on the full is great.

His passing is all over the place.

His defence is poor.

His will to win is non existent.

I have said for years that our pack isn't big enough but we keep saying how good Olly P, Smithies, Havard are etc and maybe they are all good players, but not all at once with no support. It stinks of 2005.

I'd love to see Partington play as support to Walmsley for example.

We are killing these lads.

All the defence does is track Hastings.

They don’t worry about Smith as he offers nothing.

That’s why we aren’t scoring.

Wherever Hastings goes the defence goes.

No defence worries about Smith.

Harvard is top class.

Partington isn’t.

Excellent debate there about Smith. Some good points raised IMO and valid ones at that.

I’ll throw my 20p worth in about Smith. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; I’d like to see Smith with a decent Head Coach and behind a good pack before I start calling for his departure. FWIW I agree in part with jonh that he certainly isn’t showing that promise or talent he was rapped to have. He hasn’t taken games by the scruff of the neck and has gone into hiding. For me he looks lost, he looks like he’s no idea what his coach wants him to do other than “Give it Hastings”. Perhaps he does need to be a little stronger and do things himself but you’ve got to remember he’s only really in his 2nd season at the top level and whilst HB’s need a commanding voice and confident strut about them, Smith has strong personalities taking over him.

Smithies, Partington and Byrne for me can go. I’ve seen enough. They all had promising starts but the more I watch them the more it’s obvious to see they’re nothing more than mid-lower SL standard. Players who have a dig but are in the main ineffective. Shorrocks has something about him I like but I’m leaning towards putting him in the aforementioned category to be honest.

It feels a little like scape goat hunting here. We all know the root cause of these issues - Adrian Lam

Probably right there. As I said last night, I'm not saying Smith is or isn't any good, I just want to see him behind a decent pack before I judge him.