FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > England vs Samoa |
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"I have this system where I support England first, then the other Home Nations, then the rest of the Commonwealth, then the rest of the World, then France.": |
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| Umyla Hanley went very well at Leigh this year. If he shows the same improvement from this season to next as he did from last season to this then I think he becomes another option at centre. I would also include Sam Wood at Cas, who Wane has already given a debut to. So, there is some potential depth out there. Don't get me wrong, though, I am not suggesting either of them is at the level Newman or King is right now, never mind Wardle and Farnworth. But I could see one or both getting there. Hopefully we won't be forced into shoehorning back rowers like Currie and Bateman in there any time soon. It's true our defence has to be on point for 80 minutes against Australia, but we also need to be able to score tries, which is what cost us in the 2017 World Cup. I agree we are worryingly short on full-back options after Welsby. Niall Evalds would probably be my next pick, but he is already 31. Hopefully Eckersley might be able to step into that role, or maybe Harry Robertson.
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| Quote: Bullseye "After Farnworth, Wardle and Newman who do we have in the centres? It's a bit thin there. As mentioned it's even worse at fullback. Welsby is out on his own. He wasn't as influential in this series as he has been in the past but I really don't see who else threatens his place.
O'Neill and Clark have hooker sewn up. I don't really rate Walker.
In the pack we have plenty but I'm not sure our back three is as big and mobile as the Aussie back three. In the world cup I was struck by how much quicker they all were and they combined that with size. We're going to need enough go forward so we're not consistently kicking from inside our 40m area like in all previous tests versus Australia.'"
i think part of the problem re FB is that Wigan, Wire, KR, Leigh, Leeds, Cas all have overseas FB and thats with me discounting Hull (cos i've no idea who their full back is anymore , and Connor has moved on from Hudds, so really only left with Saints, Salford and London from SL last year. So that leaves Welsby with very little competition at the minute, certainly not for the no1 international jersey
an outside shout could be Sam Tomkins but given he's retired from the game twice, that would really be an outside chance but if he goes well this year, at least it would be some competition for Welsby to push him on
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10919_1322084665.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10919.jpg |
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| Quote: Wigg'n "FB
Welsby
Evalds
Connor
Brierley
Centre
Farnworth
Wardle
Newman
King
Percival
Cross?
Very bleak. We really need the likes of Lindop, Taylor-Wray, Eckersley and Robertson to get more first-ream games next year.'"
The starting options are as good as we've had for a while but the drop off is pretty frightening. Those young lads are very promising and maybe one or two really smash a door down a bit like Nsemba but we'll see. What worries me is the talk of teams getting more players off the quota and then that'll allow them to fill squads with more overseas players (and not very good ones half the time).
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13145_1273270974.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_13145.jpg |
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| Game over if Welsby gets injured. Had hoped that Will Pryce could provide back up at fullback but he's on the outer at Newcastle.
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| Quote: MadDogg "Game over if Welsby gets injured. Had hoped that Will Pryce could provide back up at fullback but he's on the outer at Newcastle.'"
Is it a bad thing he’s on an outer?
May well kick on elsewhere. He’s clearly a talented player.
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10919_1322084665.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10919.jpg |
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| Quote: MadDogg "Game over if Welsby gets injured. Had hoped that Will Pryce could provide back up at fullback but he's on the outer at Newcastle.'"
Pryce was my hope for somebody to push Welsby. Maybe he can start to do it next season. If Welsby went down before the Ashes, I could see Farnworth going to fullback and in fairness, that could be the complete opposite of game over but we'd then absolutely need Wardle fit and available. You couldn't move Farnworth to fullback against Australia and leave yourself with a centre pairing of Newman and King facing off against Tabuai-Fidow and Trbojevic.
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| Quote: NickyKiss "Pryce was my hope for somebody to push Welsby. Maybe he can start to do it next season. If Welsby went down before the Ashes, I could see Farnworth going to fullback and in fairness, that could be the complete opposite of game over but we'd then absolutely need Wardle fit and available. You couldn't move Farnworth to fullback against Australia and leave yourself with a centre pairing of Newman and King facing off against Tabuai-Fidow and Trbojevic.'"
And the craziest part about that is Tabuai-Fidow and Trbojevic are 2 of the best full-backs in the NRL. We don't just lack depth, we also lack players who can excel in multiple positions.
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| At least we're not playing various loose forwards in the halfbacks and at hooker anymore.
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73327_1685730441.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_73327.jpg |
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| And yet I remember the days when, if Kevin Sinfield was injured, it was a disaster for England/GB. Fortunately, as noted, we have a few more options now. I'm not sure Welsby has the game to play in the halves at the top level, though.
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| @moto748, it wont let me quote your text
it will be interesting to see how Saints play Welsby and Sailor, as there is a possibility that Welsby may move into the halves and Sailor to FB, which would really bugger up our international chances . Stu / YG or FTV will probably have a better view than any of us do on that one though
and on the point yourself and Bullseye make re players switching for some unknown reason we've done that since the late 80s, moving loose forwards into 6,7, or 9, when they dont play there week in week out. Hopefully now, players are picked on merit, in their positions they play each week, so we arent putting square peg into round hole. We have a depth of talent across our game, with a couple of admittedly weaker positions as we've been discussing, but thats more, our 1st choice FB and Centres are fine, but depth beyond those players
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| Quote: Mark_P1973 "@moto748, it wont let me quote your text
it will be interesting to see how Saints play Welsby and Sailor, as there is a possibility that Welsby may move into the halves and Sailor to FB, which would really bugger up our international chances
I don't think anyone knows yet. Both Sailor and Wellens have alluded to the fact that they haven't nailed down if he is playing 1 or 6 yet. I presume that Briers will have a big input into this when he starts pre-season bearing in mind he was at the Bronco's with Sailor
Whilst I have previously said that Welsby's defensive game at FB still needs improvement, from the games I have seen Sailor play then I would suggest that Welsby is a better FB option in defence
My guess would be Sailor at 6 as he does seem to have a good short kicking game too.
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[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf]
[quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]: |
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| Quote: moto748 "And yet I remember the days when, if Kevin Sinfield was injured, it was a disaster for England/GB.'"
When were they! Brilliant domestic career but I genuinely can't remember him ever doing anything of note at international level besides that missed tackle to lose us the WC semi v NZ. It goes against the prevailing wind here but an out of position Sculthorpe did a far better job for GB at stand off.
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| Quote: Grimmy "When were they! Brilliant domestic career but I genuinely can't remember him ever doing anything of note at international level besides that missed tackle to lose us the WC semi v NZ. It goes against the prevailing wind here but an out of position Sculthorpe did a far better job for GB at stand off.'"
haha i thought this too. It's a shame because he had a hand in 2 tries in this game.
He just failed to do what everyone claims he did for Leeds, see out the game and manage us to a win.
That lack of control is what lead to the miss on Johnson IMO and that obviously overshadows setting up our tries.
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| I actually think it’s harsh that Sinfield is remembered for that miss.
He had a great game that day and one on one on the back foot against a 2013 Shaun Johnson off a quick play the ball I’m not sure many if any in the world make that tackle under such fatigue.
Seem to remember it’s a frantic game towards the end but we restrict NZ to 5 tackles out of their half, they are 40 yards from our line and one of the Burgess twins gives away a really poor high tackle giving them another 6 in our attacking zone to give them the field position for SJ to do what he did.
Sinfield though generally certainly didn’t have the impact Farrell or Sculthorpe did during their international careers and was always second fiddle to Locky on that stage too.
Great clubman Sinfield but I don’t think that form ever consistently transferred to the international stage.
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| Sinfield was a bit of a victim of being moved around at Leeds between 6 and 13 and also for GB/England, between 6, 13 and also 9. I look at this current England team and he's Harry Smith and if he was slotted in around Williams, Clark, Radley etc, then he can control the team and kick us around the field. It almost feels like he was playing with the wrong number on his back during his career. He wasn't big enough to be a 13 and he wasn't quick enough or enough of a running threat to play at 6. He played at 7 in that World Cup and the perception started to change but he then misses that tackle and we forget everything else.
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