I keep coming back to the same point but again over the weekend I watch Knowles at Saints and I watch Partington and Smithies and whilst I see a player further ahead in his development in Knowles, I think our two are doing just fine with and without the ball and are both are very much at a comparable level to Knowles when he was in his third season. The issue with our two us that they don’t have a good coach to play under and they don’t have proper go forward props like Walmsley and Paasi to play alongside. Give them that and both will kick on and will be fine players but keep flogging them, expecting them to come up with more than is physically possible at that age and with that support cast and they’ll get no better and stick at their current level (which isn’t a bad one by any means).

Again for comparison purposes from the magic fixtures-

Knowles

Tackles-34
Carries-7
Metres-49
Avg per carry-7m

Partington

Tackles-30
Carries-8
Metres-65
Avg per carry-8m

Smithies

Tackles-29
Carries-7
Metres-59
Avg per carry-8m

I hear Sky build Knowles up to super human level and the guy is a good player but he’s not playing a Lockers style role at 13 and nor are Smithies (or Partington when they play there). They’re all being asked to play as an extra prop, defending aggressively and bringing their work rate to the team. The difference with our lads is guys like Walmsley and Paasi knock out 147m and 88m each and we have Singleton and Byrne knocking out 59 metres and 49 metres each. You had Hill with 140+ metres and Cooper with over 170 metres for Wire. There’s not enough support for Smithies and Partington but even as it is, they’re going ok for my money. It’s not the job those lads do that hurt us, it’s the fact we don’t have a Hill, Cooper or Walmsley to help them.

We’re pointing our fingers at the wrong two here IMO. They’re absolutely good enough with the right support. It’s guys like Clubb, Clark, Bullock and at times Singleton (who has been good for a few weeks until yesterday) who aren’t good enough.

The club are at least trying to fix it with Mago and Ellis. If they can get the support around them right, then I think we’ll see plenty more from Smithies and Partington in the years to come. I’d really keep the faith with those two lads.

I agree I don’t think they are poor players as such, they just need more support which they have not had throughout any stage of their recent development.

Yeah, it’s not a criticism of any poster in particular. I totally get we’re struggling and everyone is under the microscope but I really don’t have any great worries with those two. They’re being given an impossible task currently and they’re still giving it a good go. Once the right support is there (if we put it in place) then I see them kicking on. If I put my hand on heart, I would say Partington plays out a career as a solid club player but I think Smithies will go further. I’d have bigger concerns about somebody like Liam Byrne at the moment. He does have some natural size about him but makes less impact with the ball sometimes. Clearly he isn’t ready to be a 3rd/4th choice prop at a club like Wigan. Every middle forward is a position or two too high IMO and that includes Partington and Smithies.

For me, Partington is a decent lad but he'll be the most at risk for losing his spot next season.

I've said previously that I can see Ellis playing 13 for us and I wouldn't mind seeing Bateman play there too. After that at prop you've got Mago, Singleton and Havard and it's gonna be a duel for that 4th spot between Byrne and Partington.

Fair point, agreed.

Would our props be capable of pumping out the 100m + stats if they were on the pitch longer?

From memory I have only seen Havard out of the props get 100m +.

Its hard to judge without knowing the length of time a player stays on the field, but it should in theory average out as the props who play less minutes often take 2 drives in a set.

Partington doesn't really look to me to me to have the mobility required for second-row (compare him to a Farrell or a Whitehead!), but isn't big and powerful enough to be a prop.

I’ve said in other threads I feel we’re one short still and that brings it home to me. I rate Smithies and Partington as I’ve pointed out but I still feel like both should be fighting for one spot in the 17 currently, given their age and experience.

An ideal pack for next season IMO would look something like

8-Singleton
9-Powell
10-New Prop
11-Bateman
12-Farrell
13-Ellis

14-Mago
15-Havard
16-Isa
17-Smithies/Partington

Back up
Byrne
KPP
Shorrocks

That would be two young forwards in your 17 if everyone is fit. You can rotate them and that would clearly go up to 3/4/5 if you had injuries and suspensions.

Sadly 73k won’t get you a great deal. I’d love to know if that figure increases if Hankinson, Clark and Leuluai go. You’d have to presume so on the first two. I’d take those two out and Chris Hill in for a couple of years (I’m still badgering for that one).

Yeah, another prop would be great & an 'old head' would be even better. Hill would be my guy too, but not sure who else we could get?

We seem to be in a bit of a pickle/mess with our quota spots, otherwise I'd be happy with Napa (although he's not been great recently), or even another guy from the Aussie Reserve grades.

I will add ‘I think I’m dreaming’ if I expect one but we can hope. I fully expect Wire to find some room from somewhere to keep Hill, if he’s not already signed that deal at Huddersfield.

Watching Catalans at the weekend and I’m not a fan of bringing old players back but we could do a lot worse than Dudson. He’s not a star, won’t get many plaudits but does his job effectively and has improved somewhat since leaving us.

I’m saying that but why would he leave South of France?

A player we were linked with who I read many on the other board turning their nose up at was Joe Westerman. I didn’t understand their opinion at the time and even less so now. He has knuckled down very late in his career but has been one of the better prop/loose forwards this season and he would laugh his way in to our 17. It’s a really tough place to play in the middle of the field and sometimes players only nail it at 30/31/32 years old.

That’s not a bad shout. He wouldn’t cost the earth and he’s been solid this season. He’s complement our pack quite well given his experience.

It’s a very tough situation.

We have blooded these youngsters, but now when they are starting to get the experience we need to manage them carefully.

The 2 lads we bring in are still young props. I think our rotation next year will be Mago, Ellis, Singleton and Havard.

Byrne and Partington to drop in when injuries occur.

I’d personally much prefer to see Isa at 13 with Faz and Bateman in the secondrow.

Then KPP off the bench along with Smithies and 2 of the 4 rotation props.

We could maybe do looking at it with 1 more older head upfront but looking at the bigger picture it would need some careful management as it would be a shame to take the pain they have gone through and not see the benefit in a couple of seasons time.