I agree with your points, more so that the quality in SL isn't up to much, the league 'levelling' isn't poorer teams getting better but good teams dropping in standard.

I still believe, call me the king of wishful thinking, that we'll begin to build momentum in preparation to peak at the right time, with a team as fresh as possible. We are playing the squad game, not a 17 man game.

Time will tell, but I think you'll see a very different Wigan when its the business end of the season.

I've stuck up for the side all year up until Friday really. I thought our effort has been great most of the year but that changed on Friday. I think a few got caught up in the Tomkins hype and just presumed we'd get carried along on a wave of euphoria. Sadly we were playing a side who are red hot.

It will take weeks for the team to gel. Players are coming back but they'll be rusty and we still look like a side at the very beginning of its season because of the disruption in key positions. There's a lot of things I'm not happy about currently in regards to how the club is being run but I'm still confident we can get ourselves in good enough shape to have a huge crack at all three trophies. That confidence comes more from the fact that the league is pure pants rather then because I feel we're particularly good.

Very interesting theory but it's akin to believing man never landed on the moon.
You can't turn form on like a tap.
For me we have a bunch of average players witha sprinkling of awful players.
We have no go forward full stop. The SOL at prop is the biggest load of tripe ever to come out of SW mouth. Historically there were ball handling props but I can't remember any that were as small as SOL. Flower would be OK as 3rd or 4th prop together with Clubb but as starting props simply not good enough. We have zero aggression which for all of SWs talk of toughness is a joke. Our forwards are too small, unfit, lack aggression and couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. Basically fodder for opposing packs.
We have 2 centres who simply cannot pass.
We have halves who cannot organise a p*** up at Tetleys. Our halfs can't kick - have you ever seen a RU half even at Amatuer level that hasn't got a decent kicking game? What do they do all week recite the "game plan" from notes handed out by the coaching staff?

And you think come Septmeber all this will change? As Ive said previously I admire your positiveness but just can't see it happening.
If your right and we get to the GF give me a shout and I will pay for your ale for the day as a penance for my negativity

I for one accept that some people are happy with what they get and somehow remain positve, like yourself. I however feel massively un-entertained and often bored watching us play, and have done for a long time. I don't see how things will change. So yes I'm also one of the moaners you despise so much.

I can almost accept the point in relation to returning players....almost.

However under our current structures we could have the Aunstralian 84 Invincibles running round in the Cherry & White and they would struggle to make a break given the predictability of our attacking plays, sorry play!

To expect that we will suddenly be more creative when we hit the play offs when we struggle with the current, most basic patterns at the moment and their timing I feel isn't realistic.

I am positive we have the potential from a playing staff point of view to win a trophy or 2 this year, I am less so confident we have the coaches in place to ensure this team reaches it's potential.

Hopefully I will be proven wrong.

That's definitely the issue, if we make it to one or even both finals it's papering over the cracks of how dull the regular season games are getting. You only have to look at average attendances from the past 3 or 4 years to see that a lot of people are losing interest.

Exactly, something is going to have to change to make this season better, and there's a few things I think that will, First off stick Sam at 6 and have Sarginson Full back, then have Tomkins and Williams at 6 and 7, that will be a lot more of a creative partnership then the current one, secondly I'd get rid of Sam Powell, hid passing is beyond shocking and his running game is virtually non exsistent which is the two key skills of a hooker and he hasn't got them, Try Matty Smith at 9 and if that's not working swap him round with George, and Forwards wise Have Clubb and Tautai start, as they seem to be the most Enthusiastic and aggressive props we have, and in the second row get rid of Joel and play Bateman and Isa because even though Isa isn't that good, he's still better than that pile of penalty machine Joel Tomkins

Don't forget the personnel will be different. This makes a massive difference. Regardless of course I'm speculating. Time will tell. However I will be topping myself if I'm wrong and I have to watch the current shower for much longer.

And do you seriously think any of those things are likely to happen?

Will it heck as happen. We will run the same plays with the same players, the only change will be more hill sprints and wrestling in training with a little more shouting, then the use of cliches and buzz words to the media will get recycled. I know this is all sounds quite bitter from me, but I'm just sick of watching the same rubbish every week and then reading and listening to the same rubbish from Wane, my patience has run out with it all.

I have been a season ticket holder since the 70's and can't remember a time before where I haven't looked forward to watching the games, even in some of the real dark days. The current brand of rugby on offer is boring to watch. I accept that this should improve with the returning players but our attacking "structure" will remain and as we have seen all season this is now ineffective. Teams know how to deal with our one move and we must be a dream to defend against.

I watch other teams and most look dangerous in the opposition 20 whereas we don't look as though we can score unless the defence makes a bad read and we manage to squeeze a winger in at the corner.

I watched Hull closely last week and the ball player sometimes had 2/3/4 options when attacking our try line. We generally have 1 option, 2 if we get giddy. We have got to the point where we have to rely on individual brilliance from players like John Bateman who I must say have been nothing short of superb so far this season.

My views on recruitment have been stated by others so I don't want to repeat what has already been said (no specialist back up hooker/lack of size/an average senior half back etc etc).

Action needs to be taken. Fans are already voting with their feet and the longer this goes on the worse it will get.

I watched the highlights on the SL Show last night, and the worrying thing is our defence looked just as bad as our attack. Some of their tries were as soft as it gets. If we make it to a final, it will just be papering over the cracks, just as the injuries excuse has helped paper over cracks that have been widening over the past couple of years.
I was watching one of the NRL games on Prem and I think it was Andrew Johns who said it's the effort of players off the ball which is just as important as the effort of those receiving it. You look at some of the NRL teams and there are 4/5 players in motion/backing up at most play the balls, asking questions of the defence. Everyone knows their role and what's expected. You watch us play and there seems to be very little effort with maybe one dummy runner. Part of me wonders if the players have actually got tired of Wane's coaching...

Quote: KingRoss11 "Exactly, something is going to have to change to make this season better, and there's a few things I think that will, First off stick Sam at 6 and have Sarginson Full back, then have Tomkins and Williams at 6 and 7, that will be a lot more of a creative partnership then the current one, secondly I'd get rid of Sam Powell, hid passing is beyond shocking and his running game is virtually non exsistent which is the two key skills of a hooker and he hasn't got them, Try Matty Smith at 9 and if that's not working swap him round with George, and Forwards wise Have Clubb and Tautai start, as they seem to be the most Enthusiastic and aggressive props we have, and in the second row get rid of Joel and play Bateman and Isa because even though Isa isn't that good, he's still better than that pile of poop penalty machine Joel Tomkins'" You'd get rid of Sam Powell and replace him with Smith? Really? The only player in the league that's made more tackles than Powell is Danny Houghton. Smith can't tackle, is slower than Powell and his passing accuracy is worse! Our issues undoubtedly start in the halves and we desperately need a new scrum half. You can't knock Smith for effort but his ability is very limited. If we had a scrum half with speed, an eye for a gap, a good kicking game and basic passing skills we would spend a lot more time in the opposition half! Sneyd, Brough, Lilley, Burrow, Dobson, Mellor, even Myler are all better than Smith. This is not a scapegoat comment as there are others who need to improve massively. The difference is I'm not sure Smith has got much improvement in him. the18thman.com/2016/05/18/super- ... -tacklers/

Quote: KingRoss11 "Exactly, something is going to have to change to make this season better, and there's a few things I think that will, First off stick Sam at 6 and have Sarginson Full back, then have Tomkins and Williams at 6 and 7, that will be a lot more of a creative partnership then the current one, secondly I'd get rid of Sam Powell, hid passing is beyond shocking and his running game is virtually non exsistent which is the two key skills of a hooker and he hasn't got them, Try Matty Smith at 9 and if that's not working swap him round with George, and Forwards wise Have Clubb and Tautai start, as they seem to be the most Enthusiastic and aggressive props we have, and in the second row get rid of Joel and play Bateman and Isa because even though Isa isn't that good, he's still better than that pile of poop penalty machine Joel Tomkins'" You'd get rid of Sam Powell and replace him with Smith? Really? The only player in the league that's made more tackles than Powell is Danny Houghton. Smith can't tackle, is slower than Powell and his passing accuracy is worse! Our issues undoubtedly start in the halves and we desperately need a new scrum half. You can't knock Smith for effort but his ability is very limited. If we had a scrum half with speed, an eye for a gap, a good kicking game and basic passing skills we would spend a lot more time in the opposition half! Sneyd, Brough, Lilley, Burrow, Dobson, Mellor, even Myler are all better than Smith. This is not a scapegoat comment as there are others who need to improve massively. The difference is I'm not sure Smith has got much improvement in him. the18thman.com/2016/05/18/super- ... -tacklers/