FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > When did it start to go wrong? |
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| Are Wigan spending full cap? or near it? serious question
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| dont think so, Il said he always leaves a bit spare just in case
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| Quote: Saint Simon "Are Wigan spending full cap? or near it? serious question'"
If we are I would be very concerned, as there would of been some serious mismanagement there and overvaluation of some player as some are simply not good enough for a top team
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68548_1368547004.jpg "Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try
No hell below us, above us only pie"(John Ono Lennon born Wigan 1940):d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_68548.jpg |
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| Quote: Cbr1000rr "If we are I would be very concerned, as there would of been some serious mismanagement there and overvaluation of some player as some are simply not good enough for a top team'"
That's quite some statement. Who do you think is "simply not good enough"?
At present we are struggling, but the squad is made up of proven quality players who are just going through a run of poor form (eg. Josh, Faz) or youngsters who have the potential to be top players.
It is likely that some of our signings like Tony Clubb and Dan Sarginson for example are on really low wages.
The only player on top money who maybe isn't worth it, is Bowen. But he has proven his quality in the NRL. We have taken a punt on him but it hasn't worked out. These things happen. Personally I'm glad the club got him even though he has generally (though not always) been poor. His tries against Catalans and Cas will live in the memory.
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| Quote: BIG HOWARD "could it be that top aussies can earn big bucks in oz now whereas previously top aussies would go to wigan or saints etc to win trophies ,now with wage capping top players stay in oz'"
That's the same for all clubs though and Wigan for all our faults have a fantastic junior set up, which is where the future lies. Last year the club spent 300k on junior development.
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| Quote: Cbr1000rr "If we are I would be very concerned, as there would of been some serious mismanagement there and overvaluation of some player as some are simply not good enough for a top team'"
It's the downside of success. All those players who've won Grand Final's and Challenge Cup then cost more on their next contract because they're in higher demand from other clubs. It's why Leeds implement a strict pay structure dependent on such things like England call ups etc.
Personally I think your biggest recruitment issue has been the halves. Alleviated somewhat by the style of play but it's still a problem that you haven't had settled halves for a while. Plus you need another leader in your team. As much as Sinfield is "the leader" at Leeds and we miss him when he's not there, we then have Peacock, or McGuire, or Burrow to at least partially fill the leadership role.
In my opinion you need to get Matty Smith tied down to a long term contract and either sign another on long term deal or put your faith in a youngster and say you're going to be our halves for the next 4/5 years. Then an astute signing of a forward with leadership qualities and you'll be fine.
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Player Coach | 1831 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2010 | 15 years | |
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| Quote: FearTheVee "Not all top players are Australian. Lots of brits have moved around in the last couple of years that would massively improve Wigan. Lots of Australians too, who whilst perhaps not big names would improve Wigan. I remember Rogues saying Walsh was no good and never takes the line on etc.
I also reckon one of your biggest issues is at hooker (particularly with limited or very young halves) but wane has too much of a mickey mac crush to notice.
It would be fascinating to know who signs players at Wigan and how close to full cap you are.'"
I don't see how - I wouldn't trade McIlorum for anyone in Super League.
We have problems in the Props and in the Halves (and at FB as Bowen is awful).
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| I wouldn't say hooker is the problem either. Wigan play a way that doesn't require the hooker to create havoc out of dummy half, McIlorum's role is to set the tone in defence and he does that brilliantly. I wouldn't swap him either. People are way overreacting with this start to the season. Let's see how we're doing in August/September and if people are still pointing out that Wigan are struggling in the halves, hooker, centre and props (I've seen them all suggested this week).
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| For me you can look no further than our pack. It's pi$$ poor compared to Warrington/Saints. Lack of recruitment there is having a major impact on they way we play under SW which is to bully teams from the front and kill them for speed on the outside.
I'd also send Gelling packing, I really really don't know what Wane see's in him, he's garbage and comes up with 3/4 errors every game! He should be nowhere near that Wigan shirt.
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| If Thornley ever gets fit then I would move Sarginson to full back.
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[quote="Frank Zappa":1sacjrvf]Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.[/quote:1sacjrvf]
[quote="The_Enforcer":1sacjrvf]Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.[/quote:1sacjrvf]: |
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| Quote: 100% Warrior "For me you can look no further than our pack. It's pi$$ poor compared to Warrington/Saints. Lack of recruitment there is having a major impact on they way we play under SW which is to bully teams from the front and kill them for speed on the outtside.
I'd also send Gelling packing, I really really don't know what Wane see's in him, he's garbage and comes up with 3/4 errors every game! He should be nowhere near that Wigan shirt.'"
Gelling is 3rd in the league for carries and 4th for metres made, all despite not playing full back or wing where you get easy metres with kick returns. He also gets either a try or an assist per game and seldom gives away penalties. His errors are a big problem but take them away and he would be the best centre in the league IMO. Plus he made 0 errors last night for a change
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Dec 2009 | 15 years | |
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| Quote: Grimmy "Gelling is 3rd in the league for carries and 4th for metres made, all despite not playing full back or wing where you get easy metres with kick returns. He also gets either a try or an assist per game and seldom gives away penalties. His errors are a big problem but take them away and he would be the best centre in the league IMO. Plus he made 0 errors last night for a change
For me Gelling says a lot about the declining quality of Super League. I don't think he's got the intelligence to be a top centre. He's unpredictable. I'm not saying all centres should be predictable, I mean it in the sense that his winger will never know what to expect or whether he'll get the right pass or not. The best centres will create space and give their winger the right pass time and time again, whether it's a straightforward pass, a flick pass, a pass out the back door. It doesn't matter - their winger will know that it's going where they want it. I don't think Gelling is that good and I don't think he'll ever reach that level of consistency.
Gelling's work rate is impressive though and it's obviously very valuable to the team. In some ways he offers something that you wouldn't really consider essential to the role he's playing. You would generally never sign a centre purely because he can make 200 metres in a game when on form, but you'd also think long and hard before taking a player who can make those kind of metres out of the team, no matter what position they play.
I don't think Gelling is an intelligent player. There doesn't seem to be much thought process in what he does, or perhaps he's just playing on instinct. Last night he took the ball from dummy half and launched a kick on the last tackle. That's either incredible stupidity that had a surprisingly positive outcome, or he's actually a quality kicker and intended that to happen and it's just been kept a secret.
Despite all the negatives, I'd still agree that he's one of the better centres in Super League, but I don't think there are many top quality centres in Super League at the moment. He does have good qualities on top of his work rate. His handling skills are good (when he keeps hold of the ball) and he's got good footwork so he can make good ground and be difficult to bring down. His height also offers another target for kicking. I also wouldn't swap Gelling for Turner, Jones or Percival at Saints and they are currently the top dogs.
In short, I haven't a clue what Gelling is or is supposed to be, but having him in the side is both great and terrible at the same time.
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| Just watching the Sarge interview on Wigan TV.
Taking away their chef? sounds a bit Mean Machine...
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| Quote: Cherry.Pie "For me Gelling says a lot about the declining quality of Super League. I don't think he's got the intelligence to be a top centre. He's unpredictable. I'm not saying all centres should be predictable, I mean it in the sense that his winger will never know what to expect or whether he'll get the right pass or not. The best centres will create space and give their winger the right pass time and time again, whether it's a straightforward pass, a flick pass, a pass out the back door. It doesn't matter - their winger will know that it's going where they want it. I don't think Gelling is that good and I don't think he'll ever reach that level of consistency.
Gelling's work rate is impressive though and it's obviously very valuable to the team. In some ways he offers something that you wouldn't really consider essential to the role he's playing. You would generally never sign a centre purely because he can make 200 metres in a game when on form, but you'd also think long and hard before taking a player who can make those kind of metres out of the team, no matter what position they play.
I don't think Gelling is an intelligent player. There doesn't seem to be much thought process in what he does, or perhaps he's just playing on instinct. Last night he took the ball from dummy half and launched a kick on the last tackle. That's either incredible stupidity that had a surprisingly positive outcome, or he's actually a quality kicker and intended that to happen and it's just been kept a secret.
Despite all the negatives, I'd still agree that he's one of the better centres in Super League, but I don't think there are many top quality centres in Super League at the moment. He does have good qualities on top of his work rate. His handling skills are good (when he keeps hold of the ball) and he's got good footwork so he can make good ground and be difficult to bring down. His height also offers another target for kicking. I also wouldn't swap Gelling for Turner, Jones or Percival at Saints and they are currently the top dogs.
In short, I haven't a clue what Gelling is or is supposed to be, but having him in the side is both great and terrible at the same time.'"
Gelling has actually got quite a good short kicking game - he's always trying to put Charnley through with it.
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| Anyone questioning Gelling's centre potential, watch Charnley's last second try vs Hull KR away last year. It was classic centre play that if Sarginson or Carmont had done, people would be talking about it for years.
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