The grand final is irrelevant as Flower was off, Pettybourne isn't here anymore and Crosby is no longer a first choice prop. Plus we were a man down and only had one prop on the pitch at any time.

I'm more than happy with Flower, Clubb and Mossop as three of our four main props. The fourth prop position is where I'm not so comfortable. The jury is still out on Tautai, Patrick and Crosby are poor currently, Sutton and Greenwood too young to say yet. If a good prop becomes available I'd hope we would be in the mix to sign him.

As for Hardaker, not for me. He is a very good player but he has self destruct written all over him IMO, and isn't so good that I'd look past that like i would have with Long in his prime, for example.

This bashing of the Wigan pack is bordering on hilarious. The pack stood up to a very big Brisbane pack a few weeks back with no problem. Yes the pack could do with being slightly bigger but anyone who has been in a sport environment will know sport can turn round very quickly. Saints' pack is huge but there are ways to play against them IMO and I'm starting to see signs in that team that a loss is on its way.

Brisbane's front three were never challenged by Wigan's. Don't confuse your ability to churn up yards fifteen yards+ either side of the centre channel with being on equal terms with Brisbane's pack. With twenty five minutes to go Brisbane wrestled complete control of that channel (not that they ever looked in danger of being challenged there anyhow) and never looked likely to relinquish it.

As for blaming Wigan's total inability to control the centre channel in the GF entirely on Ben Flower. You shouldn't need me to remind you how silly that sounds.

Blame Ben Flower for the GF. Blame Shaun Wane for not picking some kid who hasn't even established himself as a first teamer yet.

If blame is to be apportioned me thinks you are pointing it in the wrong direction.

No props - no pots.

The only thing that's starting to sound silly is your complete corruption of the facts. We stood up against Brisbane without Flower, O'Loughlin and Mossop. We didn't dominate but you wouldn't expect us to with those 3 missing, but we did stand up. In comparison, your pack was mauled by Souths. Now take Walmsley, Amor and your best player, Roby out of your starting line up and how much worse would you have been. Given you were already humiliated with a near full strength pack, I dread to think! Our starting props against Brisbane were Crosby and Sutton. Do I really need to spell this out to you? I know you're not the idiot you seem hell bent on making yourself out to be...

Secondly stop referring to the GF as some sort of marker of the respective packs. If you want to compare use the ONLY time anything near to the full strength packs went against each other last season. What happened then? You do remember Good Friday don't you? The day you were 'taken to school'?

There's no doubt that the Saints pack are looking good this time around. I think you've recruited well in Vea and Greenwood and Walmsley are both looking the business. However, as I've said previously, let our first choice pack at least take the field before making such ridiculous claims. This is the style of pack that has taken us to 2 Grand Finals. I know you're into rewriting history but even you can't deny that it must be getting something right!

If that is what Clubb is, how do you describe Masoe, Thompson, and Richards? Whose stats are well behind Clubb. Clubb has played one less game than Masoe but has stats better than his, including average gain in which your regular "impact" prop could be rated from. His stats dwarf Thompson and Richards.

If Savelio could make 180yards each game as you allude to he would walk into your 17 every week.

I'm not just talking about Brisbane. At no point in the last twelve months have I seen Wigan's front three show the kind of raw physicality which was a key component of your title winning year. Surely you've noticed this?



You do realise the entire competition is based upon building toward one single match that decides the champion team? Given that every coach understands this concept why WOULDN'T YOU judge the absolute merits of victor and vanquished? If you can't figure out which team has the better set of forwards - IN THE GRAND FINAL - when can you?



As I've said - I'm not basing my judgement on a handful of games. I mean, by all means - convince yourself that Wigan's front three is as dominant today (at full strength) as it was when you won the title. But please, leave me out.

Looking at Mossop and Clubb's stats last night.

QED.

Sorry mugwump but Phuzzy has well and truly owned you.

You'd best tell SL's statistician. 1.9248046875:10