Not that I think this is the one issue that will solve our current problems but I'm sick of seeing tries run past Charnley. He seems to have zero positional sense this season and is just letting in try after try constantly finding himself in no mans land.

Poor communication with his centre, poor team coaching..

His comeback game from injury against Widnes aside I've not seen Charnley look particularly hungry for two years plus now.

Looks a very run of the mill winger at the moment who's own self worth far outweighs his talent.

Worst of it is, if we can't keep our discipline against Cas, what chance have of doing so against Saints, with thoughts of Ben Flower banging around in their heads?

Have you any views as to why we had such a poor attitude?
I expected a reaction to the HKR defeat and was impressed with Cas last week but I dint in my worst nightmare see tonight's trouncing coming. Like yourself I've become to assume a good work ethic a given at Wigan.

Not so long back Charnley was generally thought of (and not just by Wigan fans) as one of the best two wingers in the country, along with Ryan Hall. Those days seem long gone now.

Pressure for me. Cas got a couple of lucky bounces early doors and from that point we were bailing out and getting nowhere. The attitude was poor tonight but the players are being bashed senseless. Our backs are doing the donkey work that our props seem incapable or unwilling to do and look spent when they get the ball.

There looks to be three or four holes in the team to me that's having a knock on effect.

Yep to be fair I was being kind with "this season". I've been grumbling about it for a while but he seems to have careered out of orbit this year. He looks like he's just started playing on the wing.

I'd say Briscoe and Makinson are ahead of him now and it should be between whose two to play alongside Hall.

Slowly everything that madge installed at the club has been chipped away! I agreed with what jon wilkin said after the souths game about the style of rugby superleague teams play. This "new" kind of rugby wane wants us to play isnt working

I thought pre season that we lack at least 2 props ( one if Mossop proves himself) and our centres are poor.
I would play Sarginson at fullback but lack of other centres means that we won't see that this season.
SW has got to get to basics and stick where possible with a starting 13.
From what I heard on the radio he needs a very serious chat with Farrell.
I don't rate Bowen at all and your earlier comments reinforce my view that I would not play him again this season. His defensive capabilities are non existent.
I would give Williams and Hampshire an extended run at 6&7 but I know that won't happen.

I've never seen a player do what Bowen did tonight not even in 2005 or 2006.

We're a bit stuck at the moment without Lockers or Thornley. If one of those two were available I'd say move Sarginson to fullback but I don't think we can. I'd certainly be putting Hampshire in next week and Williams should be back at 6. That was a poor move from Wane tonight moving him to the bench. He's done nothing wrong and has been far better then Smith. That could knock his confidence.

Bowen for me can leave. Our poorest overseas signing since Doc Murray.

As an outsider, where you've gone wrong is in a lack of attention to player retention and as a result your turnover has been so high that you've got a team full of kids and strangers.

OK, there might not have been too much that could have been done to keep Sam Tomkins from the NRL, but if you look at the likes of Green, Leuluai, Richards, Burgess next year, Joel Tomkins when he went to RU... do you think Joel Moon doesn't have suitors in the NRL? Justin Carney? Do you think the RU haven't tapped up Watkins? The difference is that Wane doesn't seem to have created a club where players are happy to stay - a good environment for senior pros to work and develop - even in the face of other offers. Just saying "We're Wigan. We're ancient and loyal" isn't enough. And if you churn over 6 players a year and replace half of them with kids, however talented, then you're going to struggle.

Last year you had two class players - Green and O'Loughlin - who covered up a lot of holes from the previous churn (plus the league was very weak), but this year one of them's gone and the other will play one game in three...

Yep...should never play for Wigan again.