Our record in SL this season when the captain doesn't play. Shocking but unsurprising.

No.1 priority to sort out in the off season.

And people thought we would fall apart without Gale

What has Luke Gale got to do with the original post? The Casforum is that way 》》》》 so tootle off back over there if you intention is to gloat. I have had enough listening to that four eyed whippet shagger Schofield all afternoon.

be seeing you.

It was always going to be the case because he's a better player.

Let cas gloat, it should really be their year and the team has earned it. If they fail to become champions no doubt they will give warmest congratulations to whoever beats them and show true humility. We on the other hand do not deserve to be in with a shout. Our performance today was woeful, we looked beaten at the kick off. One up rugby is boring to watch and just makes life easy for a decent defensive team. How many times, in the first half, did we assume that a tackle was complete and get caught facing the wrong way? Only the players who were actively part of the move were in motion so we had no options and did not put any doubt in the minds of the defenders. In defence two or three would start to slide leaving big gaps for the opposition to walk through.

No Lockers no pots

I would like to get in early with " It was all the refs fault" but it wasn't so I cannot.

As the saying goes, every dog has it's day.
No complacency from me though. Whoever finishes fourth has the potential to win the semi-final and the grand final.
We've had a very, very good season, but it would be remiss not to acknowledge that fourtune has been on our side too. We've won games we didn't deserve to and suffered very few injuries.
Winning the league by such a distance doesn't mean we'll win two one-off games. I'm pretty sure our players don't have the complacency of some of our supporters.

No need to stoop to Hull fans' level.

I said at the match that Lockers should have been the man of the match as he had more influence on that game by not playing than any of those that took the field. It seems that 17 pro players are unable to do even the basics without him there to guide them through the game. A frightening thought.

To me, this illustrates the frightening degree of mental weakness in the current Wigan team - which has got to be down to the the way they're trained and prepped for matches, plus an amazing lack of leadership ability among the senior players.

Yesterday ought to have been the final nail in the coffin for a number of people at Wigan. It's been a poor season all round, but the excuses about injuries etc no longer apply. We are simply not as good as we've been deluding ourselves into thinking we are. You can't dismiss the number of Cup finals Wigan have reached in recent years, but maybe that's down to the very average standards that we've seen in this competition generally. Yesterday, I felt we finally came up against a genuinely well organised, well-marshalled, well-coached team - a team who've moved the British game forward the way Wigan did in the late 80s - and we were comprehensively beaten, left behind with the uninspired stragglers.

I know it's not a simple thing to replace a coach. It's only worth doing if you can get someone better - and there is still no-one else in the UK who I think is significantly better than Shaun Wane, with the obvious exception of Daryl Powell (though I imagine he's now got a job for life at Cas). This means we have to go to Aus, and that won't be something that can be pulled off overnight.

In the mean time, there is a lot of dead wood in the Wigan side which we need to unload at the first opportunity, starting with: Joe Burgess, Tommy Leuluai, Michael McIlorum, Frank-Paul Nu'uausala and Joel Tomkins.

On top of that, players who I'd put on a kind of performance-related probation include: Sam Tomkins, George Williams, Anthony Gelling, Taulima Tautai, Tony Clubb and Sam Powell.

I'm afraid the Wigan class of 2017 really is that bad.

Hard to disagree with that Cruncher. And it speaks volumes about the game in the UK that this average team which is poorly coached can win the next 3 games and become champions???

We were so badly under-prepared yesterday. The writing was on the wall from the first set when Cas easily broke our line and went 80 metres. Is that the players fault though? Wane blamed a lot of "individuals" having poor games which is probably true but if most of the team had a poor game then you have to look towards the preparation and coaching?

I totally agree. But as I've said, replacing the coaching staff is something that can't happen as a kneejerk (and I doubt it will - the protracted but careful selection and appointment of Michael Maguire being a good example).

In terms of the players, the only ones who stood up and were counted yesterday were Tom Davis and John Bateman (as usual). Tommy L had a bit of a dig, but one good effort in a whole season is not enough - the guy's clearly finished.

There are even some who are NOT on my list of shame who I have reservations about. I fear that Oli Gildart is too small to play centre in the modern game, while for a 22-year-old, Ryan Sutton looks out of shape to me. I'm even worried about Faz's lack of stature, though that's only being exposed because we have a powder-puff front row.

I would also impose a moratorium on bringing back players who've left. I agree that this seemed like a good idea at the time, and a sensible appreciation of the new situation in the game (wherein British RL with its self-imposed restriction on spending power is bottom of the rugby world pecking-order), but it's mainly turned out to be a safety net for mercenaries. Players are basically saying that they want to go and have an adventure somewhere else (some quite ridiculously - Budgie, Joel and Josh spring to mind!) - but don't worry, they'll come back to Wigan if it all goes pear-shaped for them. Well, that's not good enough ... and on reflection, it's maybe no surprise that we keep getting our fingers burned by it. Even those who go to to Aus, who you'd expect to have improved, come back worse players - it's got to be a mindset thing; they're just not that bothered about playing for Wigan.

I know that extricating all these losers from the team sounds draconian, but I sincerely believe that yesterday spoke volumes about how we've been on the slide recently. 2017 has been an almost unrelieved tale of error-strewn performances, lack of organisation on the field and non-existent commitment from a bunch of men who get very well paid to wear a shirt that others would have put on simply for the honour of it. Hopefully, the club will now decide that enough is enough, and will view yesterday as a new low-watermark for the club. It really is time for action ... some of it pretty radical.