Genuine question.

Why Matty Smith decided to kick a Widnes player celebrating is beyond me. And then Joel Tomkins just comes flying in and floors Cameron Phelps. Absolutely moronic.

Does this stem from Wane?

The whole Liam Farrell 'the enforcer' act needs to be dropped immediately. Liam Farrell is not an aggressive Ben Westwood type player and I don't know why Wane wants him to be like that. He will only continue to give away stupid penalties. Faz should continue to play to his strengths. A clever running forward who is like trying to tackle soap and a solid defender ala Harrison Hansen. He doesn't need to belt people. He just needs to make his tackles and stay disciplined.

Sick of seeing mini scuffles all game. Teams are going to take advantage of this. I sometimes think our team is too "pumped" for matches. I know we like to be aggressive and it is part of the game plan, but there is a way of going about it legally and then there is just being plain idiotic.

Big season for Shaun Wane this. Another year of no trophies and fans will turn on him IMO.

Think Faz is starting to annoy a lot of people. For every 2 good breaks he makes, he'll lie on 5 times and give 3 headshot penalties away.

Most of our pack (exception of Logan and maybe Clubb) need to take a step back and look at how Lockers conducts himself. One of the hardest hitting in RL and all-round good player and he never acts like a moron.

It's proof that you can be aggressive and channel it in the right way.

Matty Smith would never have done that 3 years ago, I'm sure you'll all agree.

Wigan fans finally starting to realise what the rest of us have known for years.

Quite a site to see Joel jump in to 'protect' somebody other than his little bro.

All handbags really but the trip from smith needs looking at no place for that girlyball petulance in our game.

Need to watch the game back, but what provoked Smith to kick out? Hanbury (?) in his face?

Yes.

Crazy from Smith and the team as a whole got sucked in. We needing to be boring in the second half and stay away from any niggle but the players couldn't control their emotions. We got pummelled on the penalty count in the second half and had only ourselves to blame.

Ah well, still great to be back in to it!

Trip? It was far more than just sticking a leg out.

Think people are going ott about Smith, it's a soft yellow at most

Just seen it now and it doesn't look as bad on camera as it did live at the ground. I thought he got him higher then he did but it's still ridiculous and he should get a game for it.

Summed up our night.

I don't think so mate. It should have been a red and I'd say the same regardless of who the guy played for.

The most surprising thing, and I think this is what the OP alludes to, is that someone like Matty Smith is doing that sort of thing.

Does Shaun Wane try and turn each and every one of his players into something/someone they are not in terms of having that horrible streak?

For me that isn't something you should try and engineer or coach. It's a natural thing. McIlorum has it, Burns has it, Brough has it, Westood has it, etc.

It appears that Wane is getting his team so angry and aggressive that they are doing things they wouldn't normally do and it will ultimately backfire.

I know its a bit of a crude saying but "sh*t sticks"......genuine question, maybe not so much tonight against lower opposition BUT will the Flower incident (along with the Wane team talk video) have some impact when it comes to how refs perform against you lot in the future???

Glad Widnes got a draw against you, justice for Matty Smiths idiotic behaviour.

Not just refs - opposition teams too. I'm not saying Wigan's transgressions last night were caused by Widnes winding them up, but that *will* happen this season. Go into a game against Saints with that attitude and we'll soon be light on troops again.

We can hardly complain about Childs ; as has been pointed out, the red card was pretty harsh for a clumsy but seemingly non-malicious challenge, and Widnes were generally on the raw end of the decisions. But favourable refs won't save our bacon in every game.