Hull KR have filed accounts showing accumulated debts of 3 million. Is this sort of debt normal for a super league club. We know about the financial problems Bradford had/have and heard the rumours that Saints are skint. Obviously Harlequins were rescued as were Celtic but are super league viable businesses or is this level of debt wide spread throughout the league.

Presumably someone could request the account from company house but i would presume most clubs have some debt and this is normal and different to making a loss every year

We are insolvent to the tune of £2.7m. Most of this owed to IL/his other company's by the looks of it.

We're not insolvent, it's illegal to trade whilst insolvent so you need to be very careful about using that word when discussing companies.

By insolvent, I presume Woody means that if IL demanded repayment now, the club would not be able to make that payment. In this position, technically the club would be insolvent.

However, seeing as this appears not to be the case, then the word 'insolvent' is probably a bit strong.

That said, Woody's an accountant, and I'm not, so presumably he knows what he's on about.

You're welcome to download the latest set of accounts (y.e. 30.11.0icon_cool.gif. When you do you will see that without IL's backing and previously Dave Whelan this club would be in an even worse position.

Rugby league needs rich backers.

I'm just cautioning you about using the term in a general way like that, as without being specific it could be read that 'wrongful trading' is taking place. Which of course i'm sure you don't mean to imply the club is doing, on a public message board. It's just very easy to read it like that.

Apologies if it could be read like that, I wasn't meant to be implying the club is doing anything illegal (although it is legal to trade while insolvent - let's not go over technicalities though. It is Christmas and my week off from this sort of thing )

My post was in response to the OP, I was merely pointing out that per the latest set of accounts we have more liabilities than assets to the tune of £2.7m i.e. the balance sheet is insolvent and the only reason we continue to trade as a going concern is due to the continued financial support of IL and his companies.

However I would like to point out that IL appears to be trying to make the club self sufficient by increasing revenues etc and although losses remain substantial they are reducing.

We could do with some sort of salary cap, to stop clubs spending more money than they earn.
Ahem.

You don't need to warn me, I know exactly what you're on about.

The way people bandy words like 'insolvent' and worse, 'bankrupt' is shocking at times. Clearly woody knows what he's on about, as do you and I, but a hell of a lot of people haven't a clue what these words mean.

Cavalier use of words like the above can be at best insulting and at worst very damaging indeed.

What was the debt when Whelan sold - the impression is that he was using us as a tax loss leader - ie only the minimum of income was put through the rugby club's books and income from various sources was routed to other areas in Whelan's empire (all legal I may add).

You cant choose where to put your income. If Wigan RLFC took £2million in gate receipts, then it goes through the books of Wigan RLFC limited company. By the same token, if Wigan RLFC paid out £2million in wages, its an expense in the books of Wigan RLFC limited company. Of course there are ways of moving income and expenses around but these have to be legit and reasonable. For example, Whelans holding company might have charged Wigan RLFC for use of office space or consultancy, but it has to be a reasonable amount. You cant just charge what you want to maximise profit/losses. Whelan would have been using any loss made in the limited company of wigan RLFC against profits made in his other companies that were in the same group. However, I am assuming that Wigan RLFC is no longer part of a group so any losses made will just accumulate until the company makes profits. Unless IL has restructured his companies to include Wigan RLFC.

In the Whelan era it was more to do with the corporate and merchandising side of the club. As JJB were the main sponsor monies earned from those two revenue streams were not necessarily reflected in Wigan RLFCs accounts.