FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Serious question... |
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| ...which may be too easy to knee-jerk response with "Yes".
But is this year's GF-winning Wigan team as good as the team at the end of the 2003 season?
Think back, we had Farrell, Adrian Lam, Radlinski, Carney, Newton, Dallas and Mike Gregory as coach. We turned round a poor start to the season to go in at the end with 10 straight wins under Gregory and improved our points difference by means of superb defence.
The only player in both teams is O'Loughlin, obviously.
I guess where I'm going with this is given the quality and reputation of players we had back then, has the general standard of the competition gone down?
In balance, we have to remember a lot of teams (Wigan included) have had a lot of injuries to contend with this season, and I think a lot more than there were back then.
Your thoughts?
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| The whole squad and playing style as a TEAM is far better now IMO.
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| better team not better players
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| New coach, new training regime has obviously made the difference. On paper the team individually are not a patch on the 2003 team, but when you get the team playing as a group of mates who fight for one another you can achieve anything. Think yesterdays result proves that.
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| Quote: Odemwingie "The whole squad and playing style as a TEAM is far better now IMO.'"
Sums it up very well. The team in 2003 had 5-7 genuine world class players.
The team for 2003 GF wasKris Radlinski, Brian Carney, Martin Aspinwall, David Hodgson, Brett Dallas, Sean O'Loughlin, Luke Robinson, Quentin Pongia, Terry Newton, Craig Smith, Mick Cassidy, Danny Tickle, Andy Farrell.
SubsGareth Hock, Terry O'Connor
The team for 2010 GF wasSam Tomkins, Darrell Goulding, Martin Gleeson, George Carmont, Pat Richards, Paul Deacon, Thomas Leuluai, Stuart Fielden, Michael McIlorum, Andy Coley, Harrison Hansen, Joel Tomkins, Sean O'Loughlin
Subs: Mark Riddell, Paul Prescott, Iafeta Paleaaesina, Liam Farrell.
We had better world class players in the team at the 2003 final but the ones that are not highlighted are much better today than in 2003. Martin Gleeson last 2 games has been awsome but the real bonus is Paul Prescott, Mcilorum and Liam Farrell. Biggest difference though is in the squad we had Roberts missing and for me our best impact player early season Lee Mossop. The squad now and especailly next season is the best weve had in the SL era. And thats down to Ian Lenaghan and Maguire and lets not forget Brian Noble hes been hammered from not devekoping young talent, but were now reaping something he has helped with in the club.
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| So you would say the standard of competition has RISEN since those days? Disregarding certain rule changes (one in particular I blame for the rise in injuries in the sport), what would be the score if the Best of Wigan 2003 took on the Best of Wigan 2010?
And finally... Mike Gregory or Mike Maguire?
I think that's an AMAZINGLY difficult question to answer.
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| 2003 team with Lam and Carney firing was better, unfortunately they didn't see the final out. A few of the players were ageing.
The current team will go on to bigger and better things.
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| We over achieved reaching the 2003 Grand Final in my view. This current side didn't over-achieve in any argument.
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| I sent this quote by Michael Jordan as part of a good luck message:
“Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships.”
Yesterday was a perfect example of all these. In recent previous seasons, if we had lost a player of Pat's calibre during a game, we sometimes had a tendency to have "rabbit in the headlights" syndrome.
Last night, we juggled the on field personnel around and carried on.
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| Quote: Fishsta "So you would say the standard of competition has RISEN since those days? Disregarding certain rule changes (one in particular I blame for the rise in injuries in the sport), what would be the score if the Best of Wigan 2003 took on the Best of Wigan 2010?
And finally... Mike Gregory or Mike Maguire?
I think that's an AMAZINGLY difficult question to answer.'"
Maguire head coach
Mike Gregory Assistant.
Gregory was so underrated as a coach. When he became ill the side collapsed. Players would go through a wall for him.
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| Quote: Fishsta "And finally... Mike Gregory or Mike Maguire?
I think that's an AMAZINGLY difficult question to answer.'"
take the emotion away from the mike gregory situation , and as much as we was shocked and saddened by the demise of mike , and ultimately his sad death , it would have to be madge in my book . mike greg had more talented individuals to rely on
i think most are in agreement the 2003 1st team where possibly better individually , but madge has managed to instill a spirit and desire in slightly lesser talented players to more or less die for each , the commitment is unquestionable
in madge we trust
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| Quote: Salsa Caliente "I sent this quote by Michael Jordan as part of a good luck message
Isn't that exactly what happened in 2003? Carney on fire, causing Bradford all sorts of problems, then that awful headlock tackle by Pryce, off goes Carney, the game (for Wigan) goes downhill.
I was feeling a little bit of deja vu last night seeing Pat leave the field. I'm thankful it didn't happen again.
I've kept my interpretation close to my chest so far, but I'm willing to spill now... I think the 2003 side would have beaten this years team by 1-4 points in a VERY low scoring affair.
Defence wins games sometimes, and both teams had superb defence when at their best, probably epitomised by the wins against Leeds in both the 2003 and 2010 final eliminators.
The difference is so marginal, I think both teams would score 1 or 2 tries only, Farrell or Richards kicking penalties wherever possible due to the immense defence, the difference could literally be a Farrell drop goal.
The way Gregory got our defence organised was such that we went from something like 6th or 7th lowest "against" score in the table to finish with the best "against" score after that amazing run of 11 matches undefeated to close out the season. Madge has absolutely emulated or even bettered that.
Overall, I do think the standard of Super League has slipped slightly over the years. I do think there was quite a big slump and things are on the "up" at the moment, though.
Next season could be VERY interesting indeed.
We've every chance of retaining the title, but I think it will be harder.
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| Quote: Fishsta "Isn't that exactly what happened in 2003? Carney on fire, causing Bradford all sorts of problems, then that awful headlock tackle by Pryce, off goes Carney, the game (for Wigan) goes downhill.
I was feeling a little bit of deja vu last night seeing Pat leave the field. I'm thankful it didn't happen again.
I've kept my interpretation close to my chest so far, but I'm willing to spill now... I think the 2003 side would have beaten this years team by 1-4 points in a VERY low scoring affair.
Defence wins games sometimes, and both teams had superb defence when at their best, probably epitomised by the wins against Leeds in both the 2003 and 2010 final eliminators.
The difference is so marginal, I think both teams would score 1 or 2 tries only, Farrell or Richards kicking penalties wherever possible due to the immense defence, the difference could literally be a Farrell drop goal.
The way Gregory got our defence organised was such that we went from something like 6th or 7th lowest "against" score in the table to finish with the best "against" score after that amazing run of 11 matches undefeated to close out the season. Madge has absolutely emulated or even bettered that.
Overall, I do think the standard of Super League has slipped slightly over the years. I do think there was quite a big slump and things are on the "up" at the moment, though.
Next season could be VERY interesting indeed.
We've every chance of retaining the title, but I think it will be harder.'"
Although i disagree with you on a couple of points (Main one being we are a far better team today) i think we will win the CC & GF next year, the thing IL & MM have brought to the club is progression, we ain't standing still, we are continually looking for improvement.
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| Well, this is what debate is all about.
I do hope you're right!
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