FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Is Sam Tomkins a shoo-in on return? |
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| Having watched the Wire game yesterday morning, I couldnt help but notice just how impressive Morgan Escare has been since he joined the club. His impact from the tee goes without saying, but its the little things he does that make sure a big difference in my opinion. For example, fielding a grubber kick in his own in-goal and somehow jinking his way out when other players would be trapped and we'd be kicking the ball away, or the way he turned Gidley inside out on the break. His defence and composure under the high-ball is a lot better than people have given him credit for, also.
The question thus becomes, can we [ireally [/idrop this guy just because Sam Tomkins is Sam Tomkins? I honestly dont think we can. Injuries may put paid to the selection crisis before Sams return, but I personally believe we shouldnt change it unless its broken.
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| It would be unfair on Escare if he was simply dropped, but after such a long absence, Sam will need to be eased back in anyway.
Unless there are more injuries, I'd expect to see him make a couple of bench appearances initially. Plus, there are other positions where he can comfortably fill in.
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| It's a nice problem to have but it is one that needs to be managed carefully. I don't think anyone expected Escare to perform this well and he's bringing some things to the side I don't think Sam will (I'm mainly thinking goalkicking and his general kicking looks better as well) but on the other side of the coin I think Sam will add some things that Escare isn't currently (a real assist making ability and more of a try threat. He will also get far more attention from opposition defenders).
Tough to say what we should do really. Sam Tomkins will need to be eased back in anyway so it may not be anything to worry about for a while.
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| I'd run with Sam off the bench when he is back fit. He can come into the halves with Leuluai moving to hooker to give Powell/McIlorum a rest. Escare is doing too well at FB to risk moving him IMO. It also sends the right message to the fringe players in relation to selecting based on performance rather than reputation. Using Sam as a halfback also prepares us for if/when NRL/RU come knocking for Williams.
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| He's not guaranteed a spot and that's a good thing.
Of course, there's there's the interesting problem of Brexit on any French player's ability to play in the UK going forward. Can the club sign contracts past A50+2 years? If they do and there's a visa which may not be granted, visa costs and so on to be worried about.
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| Sam Tomkins has to be given a fair chance to prove himself. Before his injuries he was unplayable at times in Superleague and I'm confident he can have a huge influence our performances.
I don't think he's been fit since his return from NZ and his game wasn't the same last year. That doesn't mean he can't improve and shouldn't get picked.
When Burgess is fit will he come back in? Of course he will. Despite that fact that his understudy scored 4 tries and was MOM.
Escare was brought in to cover Sam. He's been brilliant and I hope we can pin him down long term but Sam deserves to be given a chance to prove himself. If he's not up to it, Escare should come back in.
It's a great position to be in but in my view (possibly only mine) Tomkins is a better player than Escare, McIllorum is a better hooker than Powell, Manfredi is better than Tierney etc. Therefore they all deserve an opportunity to prove themselves when fully fit. It's great to have such quality in depth.
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| Quote: Bigredwarrior "Sam Tomkins has to be given a fair chance to prove himself. Before his injuries he was unplayable at times in Superleague and I'm confident he can have a huge influence our performances.
I don't think he's been fit since his return from NZ and his game wasn't the same last year. That doesn't mean he can't improve and shouldn't get picked.
When Burgess is fit will he come back in? Of course he will. Despite that fact that his understudy scored 4 tries and was MOM.
Escare was brought in to cover Sam. He's been brilliant and I hope we can pin him down long term but Sam deserves to be given a chance to prove himself. If he's not up to it, Escare should come back in.
It's a great position to be in but in my view (possibly only mine) Tomkins is a better player than Escare, McIllorum is a better hooker than Powell, Manfredi is better than Tierney etc. Therefore they all deserve an opportunity to prove themselves when fully fit. It's great to have such quality in depth.'"
Was S.Tomkins playing better than Escare is now, prior to his most recent injury though? IMO no, which is the difference. Burgess and McIlorum were playing better than Tierney and Powell are now. If he plays well off the bench and Escare doesn't keep it up then obviously that's a different conversation. Playing off the bench may also benefit S.Tomkins as he won't feel the pressure of trying to win the game on his own, he can get his confidence back as a luxury player.
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| Given the injury situation Sam can't get back quick enough for me. It's unrealistic to expect the two rookie wingers to be consistent over a longer term. Sam to be eased in at FB, Escaré onto the wing IMO. The real fun starts if we ever get the back line fit!
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| People who hammer the standard of Super League fail to recognise that defence has improved immeasurably over time. And this - in my view - is why we see so many injuries in the modern game, that we didn't even ten years ago.
It's highly unlikely that we will see a full first 17 on any game day this season. So it is about having a squad capable of covering any emergency, which we proved last season. Thankfully we have players of the quality mentioned above. I'll let Waney worry about where to fit everyone in, if we have that sort of problem ever again.
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| Quote: Aboveusonlypie "People who hammer the standard of Super League fail to recognise that defence has improved immeasurably over time. And this - in my view - is why we see so many injuries in the modern game, that we didn't even ten years ago. '"
Has it improved immeasurably since 2006? I'd say it's got worse myself and certainly not got immeasurably better in the last 10.
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| Quote: sergeant pepper "Has it improved immeasurably since 2006? I'd say it's got worse myself and certainly not got immeasurably better in the last 10.'"
No doubt that 'Defence' has improved. The standard overall (attack, defence and entertainment) is debatable.
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| Quote: Aboveusonlypie "No doubt that 'Defence' has improved. The standard overall (attack, defence and entertainment) is debatable.'"
I think that the fitness levels have improved dramatically, and because of this the defence has got much better. Teams can now get three and more men in the tackle, slow down the ptb and still get back for the next one.
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| Quote: Aboveusonlypie "No doubt that 'Defence' has improved. The standard overall (attack, defence and entertainment) is debatable.'"
I think the defensive tactics have changed, but overall i don't teams are defensively better. I'd argue the attacking quality has severely diminished as has the standard of play. Now saying that if both yours and my statements are correct there should have been a lot more blow out scores 10 years ago right i.e. attack was better and the defence was worse?
That's not the case though is it? So the defence wasn't that bad.
Quote: Aboveusonlypie "
I think that the fitness levels have improved dramatically, and because of this the defence has got much better. Teams can now get three and more men in the tackle, slow down the ptb and still get back for the next one.'"
Again has fitness improved dramatically in the last 10 years? Are guys like Lockers and Sam fitter than Faz and Radders? Tommy vs Lam or Gildart/Percival/Gelling/Moon/Watkins fitter than Gleeson, Senior or Lyon? Or is it just different tactics?
I don't think that when you compare players from 10 years ago to now there's a dramatic or immeasurable difference in their fitness or defensive capabilities. I do think they are coached a hell of a lot differently and play to a system completely different to anything seen back then as well.
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| Definitely not.
Escare looks like the bargain of the season, I can imagine fans of other teams wondering why they didn't try and sign him!
As others have said it is a good problem to have but based on current form I would prefer Escare remains at full back and I hope we manage to secure him on a longer contract asap.
There will be a long queue for his signature...
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| Honestly,one game on the bench for Tomkins and after that Escare will be "rested" don't know why its just a gut feeling the way it'll pan out.
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