This is no knee jerk this is an assessment of the season.

From top to bottom the club needs a new broom.

Wane's tactics, if they are tactics are woeful. This whole notion that Props don't need to make yards is laughable. Our pack is powderpuff light offers nothing and only livens up when they want to play the hard man stuff after they make a mistake. Too small, technically very average, easy to dominate.

Our conditioning since Bitcon moved upstairs has gone down hill. The devil is in the detail and unless you are hands on day in day out you cannot assess the detail, still good to see we are providing a living for another ex Wigan player to lead our hand on conditioning. Thought those days died when IFL came to the club but they have crept back in. Ex Wigan player Kriss Radlinski leading the club and ex Wigan player Shaun Wane in their positions of power may disagree.

Halves.....Williams isn't one. Smith isn't much better. If Hampshire doesn't get a run next week he needs to run straight to another club.

Back up hooker, massive problem ever sine MM became our first choice hooker. We have never had a good one since, we may actually have one in the squad but he is playing 7.

From top to bottom we have slipt back into the good old bad old days of jobs for the boys and Brian Noble style tactics.

As for tonight Wire were not even that good which says it all about our performance. Still we wil beat Leeds next week and it will all be swept under the carpet again.

ill disciplined.
Weak in the pack.
Error strewn.
Clueless in attack.
Same moves.
Poor defence.
Backs making hard yards out our own quarter.


A familiar pattern this season. I really think Leigh could compete (and quite possibly turn us over).


The only positive was Matty Smith's in field kicking was an improvement.....er, thats about it.

SW just been on - Poor, out enthused. Not just tonight Shaun, for the majority of the season!

13 days prep for that.

Utterly hideous.

Wane should get until the end of the year. But if this keeps up he should go. Probably won't but he should.

My thoughts also.

I keep saying to myself 'keep your head' and don't go all 'knee jerk' so I won't but things aren't right.

Wane has ripped up the whole ethos instilled by Maguire and is living in a big headed and pig headed bubble. He needs to realise he's no Maguire and he can't improve what he brought in but he could continue to run with it but instead all he's ever talked about is how he can do things better.

Talk about putting pressure on yourself!!

I echo everything said in this thread. It is time for change. Our pack is too soft - it's horrible to watch. The same plays are made over and over again. Silly errors and dumb rugby. Ill-disciplined with a lack of leadership. And strange comments and leadership from Wane. From bagging Josh Charnley in the press yet Bowen is immune from it. To making ridiculous comments all the time like "you need a strong referee" and the comments he made about Catalans before the game about their away form (irony!!) and they destroyed us. His weird smile after the Burgess no try today and the same "you need a strong referee" comment after the game. I think he's losing the plot.

We need 2 Props and a Secondrow badly. All need size and physicality. We could do with looking in the East Yorkshire direction again for Props backrow overseas.

Conditioning needs a shake up, Bitcon needs to be back in the ground and we need to go back to the NRL for a coach.

Tha Salford game was a major shock for me and that night I knew for sure that this season was over bar a few handbags when we would put on a "show" against probably Widnes then relapse into headless chickens for the remainder of the season.
I have felt some while that something isn't right at the club in terms of approach, commitment and lack of any direction be it the team, the management or even Wigan TV who couldn't be d to update the site on anything since the Salford debacle until this morning.
Losing away to Warrington should be hard to take but shouldn't be a surprise in any season but tonight it's the sheer lack of any concept of a game plan and the look of 17 individual very average players that hurts.
IL needs to decide now if SW and KR are to be in place next year because our "recruitment" has been a disaster recently and I include Tomkins in that category of failed recruits along with Tautai, Patrick and the contract extensions of Powell and Bowen.
It's not a time for a knee jerk reaction and probably he is the only person who really knows what is going on and if there are other issues affecting the team that the average fan is oblivious to. I didn't see Deacon tonight and wondering if he has announced his intention to leave the club that may partly explain our recent performances of pure drivel.
From a personal point of view I'm genuinely not sure what I would do if I was IL but as a minimum I would be contacting a few agents as to the potential availability of the top coaches in Aus and the one or two in England at least as a contingency plan.

For what its worth I do think its time for change but only at the end of the season. Deacon would be the ideal replacement. Radlinski has talked his coaching potential up so lets see what he can offer.

My biggest problem with Wane has always been his "jobs for the boys" approach. Anyone who has ever spoken to anyone on the inside of the club knows that Wane has his favourite players. The younger academy lads arent always given a fair chance. Dont know what it is but Wane only ever favours some academy lads and those who he classes as his "mates". Those who arent are thrown to one side. Jack Murphy was an example of this. He had great potential and when we lost at Wakefield last year he was our best player on the pitch but he wasnt given another chance. If Wane has a personal problem with you it becomes political and you end up dropped. Just ask Scott Taylor - he experienced it at the end of last year and Charnley is experiencing it now. In recent video review sessions rumour is Charnley was unfairly blamed for nearly every problem under the sun. Yes, he's not as good as Manfredi but he didn't deserve the criticism Wane gave him.

Whilst I cant prove all of this it does indicate that Wane may have a "nasty" side and this is one problem I've had with him from what I've been told.

Even Noble valued props having Coley and Fielden up top. Madness to actually think Wane was a prop, you wouldn't think he undervalued the position so much, especially saying we started the game with 3.

we were poor tonight that goes without saying, wire were not that good though and we should have had enough to take them, if burgess gets the ball down and mossop shows a bit of aggression and gets the ball down we make a game of it.
mossop reminds me of pryce, a giant baby.

I don't know Sean Wane, and I'm not around the Wigan camp so I can only judge off what we actually know what happens.

Scott Taylor wanted to move back to Hull, Wigan tried to talk him round but he'd made his decision, so he was no longer part of Wigan's plans.
Charnley isn't playing as well as Manfredi, you couldn't possibly pick him over Manfredi on form so Charnley has to be dropped, as much as I like and rate Josh.
We have several other players, wingers and fullbacks far better than Murphy, some younger who were developing into better players, so rightly he was moved on.

Out of our props only Clubb can really hold his head up high. Flower has looked good since his return. And Ryan Sutton has acquitted himself very well. Tautai, Crosby and Mossop need a long hard look at themselves. We are crying out for an aggressive yet experienced and level-headed prop forward. Someone who can bark out the orders, lead the pack and command respect from his colleagues.

Second row we are crying out for size as you say. Tomkins is big and skillful but can go off the rails. Bateman has been awesome and is so aggressive for someone of his stature. We could do with a huge straight forward running forward who again can lead the pack and is experienced. Tomkins, Faz and Bateman can all feed off that.

I personally have been a huge fan if the IFL impact. I do though think his presence is somewhat missing in the last 2 years I may be wrong in this but is seems from the outside less visable.

It does seem to have reverted to a jobs for the boys mentality at the club. Internally I see many positive words about Rads in his position externally I don't hear too much. The ethos of a club starts at the top and of our 3 most prominent off field representatives IFL seems less present, Rads wildly inexperienced for a club with our ambition and to be fair his track record has done nothing to inspire confidence and Wane seems happy to make headlines but lacks consistent substance.

Major issues highlighted by the 3 mentioned is our failure to find a support hooker since Riddell left and MM became first choice and our public strategy to look at size post Sydney and recruit absolutely non.

Your statements are right but you are ignoring my wider point.

All I'm saying is everything isn't as rosy as some people think within the club.

The truth will come out in the end.

What is missing in our team?
Leaders, true ball players in the halves who can run the show, ideally with a kicking game.
Aggressive props who eat up the yards and tackle hard striking fear into the opposition.
A genuine 9 on the interchange, a player who plays the game with a quick scoot running at tiring forwards.


Do we have the personnel to apply the above?