One RU game, Harlequins v London Irish, boasts an attendance of approx. 82,000.

Seven RL games during a RL "Magic" weekend have a combined attendance of approx 60,000.

If some on this forum continue to use the term "Yawnion" when refering to Rugby Union, wouldn`t it now also be appropriate to refer to Rugby League as "Beleaguered"?

And let me give you a dictionary definition of "beleaguered" - 1. struggling against difficulties or criticism or 2. besieged by an enemy.

I`ll get my coat.

This is a one off game played at Twickenham it's one of the union events that they do much better than us.

Look back at the attendences at the corresponding fixtures when not played at HQ and you will have a much more reliable data source. Even better just compare attendences in both codes for the last few seasons.

This is a bit like me picking a Union game where less than 3k turn up and comparing it with a Wigan v Saints final and saying clearly League is superior.

League membership and attendences are up and moving in the right direction although the next few years are going to be a major test of where we can go and the true health of our game.

Magic Weekend is a one off event and I, for one, fail to understand what it actually achieves.

The marketing of and the attendances at RU games are in the main much better than at RL. Yesterday for example there were 3 games, one with 24,000, one with 10,000 and one a sell-out although I don`t know the actual numbers.

In recent years we keep coming up with statistics about the health of our game but the reality for me is that unless there is a major shake up the game is doomed.

The RU marketing team are far better than us no doubt about it. Their club game is on a par with ours attendance wise but internationally and as far as involvement goes they kill us.

The Magic Weekend is an excellent concept that has been ruined imo because of several things. Firstly, we struggle to create 7 competitive games that whet the appetite of hardened league fans let alone newcomers. Second, the location isn't ideal. I enjoyed Manchester this year but had the weather been poor then the whole fan village idea would have failed miserably. Cardiff is the perfect place to hold it with everything on your doorstep and sports mad people everywhere you turn. Thirdly, the advertising hasn't been good enough. Send Gareth Thomas and a Welsh born player like Ben Flower into the schools around South Wales months ahead and push the game. Give out tickets to Neath and South Wales fans as well as schools, clubs, people on buses etc etc. Advertise in papers and on radio and TV etc. Yes it'll cost money but you have to speculate to accumulate.

2012 Super League Average Attedances

Wigan 16,043
Leeds 14,948
Saints 14,088
Hull 11,885
Bulls 11,761
Warrington 11,430
Cats 9,383
Wakefield 8,172
Hull KR 7,786
Huddersfield 7,709
Cas 6,633
Widnes 5,942
Salford 5,492
London 2,808

2012 Rugby Union Average Attedances

Saracens 36,877
Leicester Tigers 20,724
London Wasps 17,514
Gloucester 13,347
Harlequins 13,062
Northampton Saints 12,694
Bath 11,043
Worcester Warriors 8,413
London Irish 7,816
Exeter Chiefs 6,869
Sale Sharks 6,780
London Welsh 5,131

An earlier post said "The Magic Weekend is an excellent concept that has been ruined imo because of several things. Firstly, we struggle to create 7 competitive games"

There it is in a nutshell.

In my opinion the game will not progress until the product on the field gets better by becoming more competitive.

There are too few intense games of any real quality. Games now are poor compared to just 10 years ago.

I agree with the above, we do need to look at the intensity, realistically there are 2 leagues in SL. There is a definite issue of playing to the lowest common denominator.

From what I see though some clubs are getting their act together, Wakefield for example and now hopefully Bradford as well.

Salford and Castleford are big concerns at the moment along with Hull KR.

The issue is still in my opinion Nigel Wood leading our game forward and the competitive nature or lack of it for many rounds of the SL season.

On field the product is still far more entertaining than Union and the viewing figures from Sky support this, but again due to International coverage Union hammers us in relation to the financial backing it can generate from this also.

The Saracens data is a bit misleading, they have the games in Wembley in those figures.

They are moving into Barnet Copthall stadium (Allianz Park) which is being improved/modernised in to a 10k stadium, if they were posting gates of 36k do you really think they would be happy with a 10k stadium when they currently play at Vicarage Road with a 17k capacity?

This 100%

You struggle to notice when big events like the WCC, Magic Weekend and any internationals are on.

The had a really good ad campaign last year showing the super human abilities of our star players (Super league of the unbelievable was the tag line i think) and unless you visited this site and saw a link that a few posters had made, you would have been oblivious to its existence.

All that hard work and investment into creating the advert and no 8ugger saw it because it was hidden on the web as opposed from being on regional TV.

Yups....... The RFL could not sell ipads if they ran Apples marketing

Has anyone on here been to a Union game?

I have, twice so far
Sale v Saracens at Edgeley park last march, and Sale v Saracens at city of salford a few weeks ago.
Edgeley on a friday night was almost sold out, with a great atmosphere, comparable to most rugby league games , if not better. The game was a fast, open affair, and i enjoyed it.
City of salford on a saturday afternoon was a borefest by comparison. No atmosphere whatsoever, and a game littered with penalties. The amazing bit is when the kicker takes the kick its like a cathedral, deathly silence, and its frowned upon if you talk!! I was brought up the put the kicker off.

ok...my point...ive sampled Union, so i feel able to judge.
It doesnt come close to League for entertainment value, so if there is a fault, it lies with the RFL marketting people

I held season tickets at both Harlequins RU and RL

The "events" are worlds apart-

RU- Game is dull played in wet cold conditions.

RL- Fast exciting games played in the sun

Difference- The RU fans are less knowledgeable about the game but go for the occasion with there drinking chums. A far wealthier group(av salary of fans at Quins RU is £45k) who follow it as a consequence I suspect of going through (and playing the game) in public school and uni.

RL- Attended by lower/working class. The away crowds can be poorly behaved, unsavoury with bad language (after 6 hours on the bus drinking). You would never get that at RU

There is very little cross over between the sports at the Stoop. The crowds inclusive of the home fans at the Quins/Broncos are worlds apart in the social ladder. I know of RU fans who don't recognise RL as a game!!!

The RL product ie the game on the field is a far better product. The social differences are the barriers.

Its still the game played by northerners. The games branding needs to continue to change if the games wants to move forward. Thats not very palatable I accept but its worked for union

The thing is RL has never had its moment for instance

Cricket - 2005 Ashes
RU - 2003 World Cup
Cycling - 2012 Tour de France/Olympics

Many people who couldn't give a monkeys before got gripped by it and thats what we need but playing Wales at Wrexham at the end of the season in front of 2000 fans isn't going to get us that, only an Ashes 3rd test (1 a piece)against Australia at Wembley on a warm and sunny Saturday afternoon and go on to win would do that.

Does anybody think since we went to Summer rugby International RL has declined?

For instance you can't beat International RL in the early 90's. 1990, 1992 tour of Aus and the Aus tour of GB in 1994 were awesome, since then it's took a nose dive apart from 2001,2003 and 2004 when we were GB and almost beat the Aussies

Totally spot on. That's the real crux of the matter. It is a day out.

I can see where you are coming from with your other comments but would argue against the fact that most people who watch RU are "Middle Class". This might be true of the South East, but if you go to the South West of England or Wales, RU is as much a working class sport as it is anything else. In fact it, unlike the perceived image of RL, RU is a "classless" sport, which gives is a much much broader base of "acceptance".

Internationally it is simply played by more countries (and more importantly entrenched as the de facto code of Rugby). A country like Japan for example simply does not have enough interest in Rugby to support more than one code. This holds for the vast majority of countries.