At the end of the day, like the saints game, we were no were near as clinical as we needed to be, for us to win we needed to be 18 points up in that spell at the start of the game when warrington couldnt get their hands on the ball.

I thought that our pack looked small without andy coley, and got mullered by a big warrington pack. Especially our front row, we coped well in defense for the first half of the game, but in offence we didnt lay a decent platform for our backs to play off. Often ending up in the middle of the pitch on the 3rd or 4th tackle in midfield and close to their line when we wanted to be swinging the ball outwide.

I also thought we missed a decent fullback, someone that can chime into the line at the right time, like phelps for the first three matches of the season. I could even go as far to say that we missed him.

Saying all this i thought the ref had a poor game, but for both sides. However i think one decision lost us the match, when joel tomkins picked up that loose ball, and kicked it forward (A poor decision imo) and richie mather clearly knocked it on, Surely liam farrell never crossed the advantage line as he never gained control of the loose ball. Therefore first knock on, wigan head and feed on the warrington 20 in the last 10 minutes.

How james child can deem that richie mathers hasnt knocked on?! which he clearly has?! or advantage has been played which clearly hasnt?! is beyond me.

Good post.

Agree with being dominatnt in the first 20 mins, eaxactly like Saints but not scoring enought, then the fisrt attack Saints/Wire have they score.

Our apsk simply wasn't big enough. Fielden isn't the same player, Prescott is good, Mossop and Tuson are young back rowers and playing propr against Wire is a very very big ask and no surprise Wire won that area of the field. A big mean scary prop is what we are crying out for.

Bad decision for the Farrell no try, we had momentum having just scored, another set on their line could have been massive. A ref can make mistakes but the vid ref shouldn't, ever. Just like the Leeds CC game when Lee Smith knocked on from the bomb and Tomkins got held up and the vid ref said Leeds ball. its diabolical.
Also, when Anderson was miles offside with the big hit on Hansen for him to knock on. Again, another set on the Wre line and we didn't get it.

I thought Wigan never really played with the same attacking fluency that they have showed on many occasions this season. This was a combination of a more tentative approach in such a big game and because Wire closed them down well in defence especially on the flanks.

With a bit more composure and ball control Wigan could have won the game e.g. why did Joel Tompkins kick when he had men on either side and tackles to spare. This can only be put down to big game pressure from which he will learn.

What concerns me most from the losses against Leeds, Saints and Warrington is that Wigan have lacked the big game composure which will be needed even more in the play-offs. However, this comes from experience which they are now getting. I am sure they will learn from the experience and will be better for it. Wigan are not the finished article and need some to learn some more hard lessons. The game gave Madge and Shaun plenty to talk about in training including the tremendous effort put in but unfortunately trophies are won with more than just effort.

I have stated it last night we have a good crop of young players, and a good mix of experience. However we don't have that winning mentality. There are not enough players in our squad who can put their hands up and say I have a winners medal.

Mix that in with one decent prop, (never rated Prescott) who took a big hit and then struggled throughout, and our rotation of the FB role, not too mention a winger in Amos just trying to find his form again, means that we where in trouble.

It still hurts to lose to Wire, they seem to be building up momentom and we could, (if not careful) start to be on the slide. Next two games against Hull & Leeds away are going to be crucial. We are going to need maximum points. Because Wire have a easy run in Catalans, Saints, Wakey, Quins & Hull.

We could be looking at 2nd place, and we only have ourselves to blame.

My thoughts on the game, well basically our forwards got totally dominated. We weren't clinical enough, Madge has got to make the learn from the last 3 defeats against the other contenders ( Leeds, Saints and Wire) and we will not be too far off come the 2nd October.

Last night showed exactly why we are trying to sign Hoffman, Lima and Finch. Their forwards were much much stronger and bigger than ours, and when Riddell went off the field we lacked direction- this is where all 3 players would have been ideal.

I think the scoreline flattered us to be honest, we did not deserve to be in that game with 10 mins left, both out tries to get us back into the game came against the run of play.

our kicking game was non existent and too many times it was left to TL to kick who does not have a kicking game which for a no. 7 is not acceptable.

our forwards were always going to struggle, I think in all fairness they all worked very hard, but Tuson is not ready yet ( body wise) prescott just is not good enough and I hope we release him at the end of the year.

for me the main blame lies with our coach, he has worked wonders with the squad no doubt about it but yet again his bench policy was to say the least pathetic. Deacon came on with 8 minutes to go, why oh why oh why,

madge, if you read this what is the point of wasting an interchange place like that! did the same against leeds with Tuson, pointless.

please put Amos Roberts in the u20's to get fit, score some tries and build confidence he is at the moment a complete liability and we are moving the team around him.

for all the good work madge has done his bench policy has played a major part in the losses to Warrington and Leeds and he does not seem to have learnt the lesson.

I thought i'd never ever ever ever say this, but i think phil bailey wouldnt of been bad option on the bench for us. Our bench and pack in general looked so lightweight. I cant wait for a certain gareth hock to come back. He would of been daft enough to sock morley or anderson or carvell for late shots. Which would of been great, and would of lifted the entire team.

So you're saying we don't have anyone that played for Leeds or Saints in the past 5 years then.

As for the lack of a winning mentality - I'd argue the young players coming through have exactly that. Our academy is dominant at the moment, they've known nothing but winning. It's getting experienced, quality, players along side them that's going to be the difficult task for those in charge.

First impressions were that we were outclassed in certain key areas of the game. At the game I felt that our forwards were bossed, our half backs were not creative enough, that our defence was always more suspect than Warrington's and that we made far too many errors. Warrington on the other hand defended their line well and attacked with a lot of creativity although watching it first hand I didn't appreciate the key role that Lee Briers played in our demise.

But watching my recording of the game again this morning when I obviously knew the outcome I was able to analyse things as they happened and I didn't think that we played as badly as I first thought (with the obvious exclusion of the error count) although I did feel that Warrington were just about the better team and Lee Briers was masterful. The way they defended against some of the moves that have been the hallmark of our attack this season just shows how well drilled Tony Smith has them. It also demonstrated where our main weaknesses are in certain games. Also I don't like to criticise the coaching staff but I cannot fathom why Paul Deacon was only used with 8 minutes to go. If MM's plans had been to bring him on when Piggy was subbed and put Tommy to acting half back I could understand it . Other than that I am confused.

However, none of what happened last night marks the end of the world, all of it can be rectified and, as others have said, it doesn't mean that we won't be in or even win the GF but it does mean that nothing can be taken for granted. And if the rumoured signings from Melbourne take place then next season should see a marked improvement in consistency in some of these areas.

I think our subs plan was greatly affected by Amos picking up his knock.

I thought Wigan had no penetration, when we had the ball (not that often) i noticed that we were making a hell of a lot more yards per tackle. At half time in the beer queue i said to someone, i feel quite confident, wigan are not making many metres per tackle. Can i just say that Tomkins is wasted at fullback too.
So really what i'm saying is i agree with what you're saying, without your key forwards last night it was always going to be very tough.

Agreed.

Setup:
No Coley
No O'Carroll
No McIllorum

Events:
Fielden taking a shoulder to the chin
Roberts picking up a knock (playing a part in 2 conceded tries through it) having to come off
Mossop hurting his shoulder again
Riddell hurting his ribs?

It was tough before the game started missing size, the in game events then made it next to impossible to run a smooth interchange and keep people fresher.

For me there were 4 main issues that immediately spring to mind.

We lost the game in the forwards. I have said for a few years that our pack isnt good enough and, although it has been much better due to Maguire's training regime, it is still our big weakness. Last night the pack was completely outmuscled. It is just too lightweight and we have a serious lack of firepower. Warringtons pack is possibly the best in the league when they are firing on all cylinders and we just couldnt compete. They have a very big pack and when the big forwards are on form they make lots of metres and can also be brutal in defence. We desperately need 2 big forwards, and if the rumours about Hoffman and Lima are true they are just what we need in matches like that.

This weakness in the forwards was further compounded by our subs bench. Our bench was very weak, and again lightweight. Farrell, Tuson and Mossop are good young players but arent a match for the likes of Solomona or Wood who came offf , particulalry when the starting forwards are already being dominated. Deacon was just a waste ub spot in a game like that.

Our kicking game was once again dreadful and all too predictable, particularly in those first 25 minutes when we were camped in Warringtons half. If you contrast that to Briers the difference is marked. His kicks resulted in a try and a few near tries. He also forced a few repeat sets.

I am a big Roberts fan but he is still no where near match fit. His attempted tackle on Hicks was awful and he was no where near the 2 kicks that resulted in tries when he was out of position and slow to react. I think that a match fit Roberts would have prevented all 3 tries.

You're all overreacting a bit. It was a cracking game in awful conditions. It was every bit as intense as the game at the HJ you won & would not have disgraced the GF. You are top of the table for a reason - you have been the best & most consistent side so far this season. Last night you came up against one of if not the best pack in SL which hit form again after a few dodgy matches. On the back of our dominant pack, Briers was allowed to dictate the game and as one of you said was masterful. Equally on the back of a beaten pack & unsure what position he was playing in Tomkins was anonymous and unable to dictate any of the game other than in the first 15 minutes and a delightful pass to Tuson to score.

It's not the end of the world by any stretch for you.

Good call...though the cracking game bit is maybe exaggerating a bit. While it was intense and very passionate, the amount of dropped ball meant that the game was pretty much stop/start.

Don't want to put too much of a downer on Wigan, but I really believe that Maguire has done a fantastic job getting consistantly top class displays from what is, in my opinion, not really a top class squad...Maybe last night was just an indication that they may just lack that certain something required to win the play-offs?....Saying that, finishing top, which I believe they will still acheive, will be an admirable performance, and will give them plenty to build on for next year.

As for Wire, I really believe that if they can hold their nerve and eliminate those dodgy 20 minute spells they seem to throw in on a regular basis, then we definitely have the side, especially the pack, to beat any side....I just fear that there may still be a mental barrier when it comes to Saints or Leeds.