It has really been brought home to me what R/L clubs are up against having to compete against R/U.
The Wales v France match tomorrow in New Zealand will have a sellout crowd of 60,000, with up to 20,000 Welsh fans expected to be in the stadium.

What is even more amazing is the fact that the Millenium Stadium is opening in the morning so Welsh fans can watch the match on big screens. At present 65,000 free tickets for this event have been issued . One sad fact about this though is that tickets for the TV screening are appearing on ebay at £50.00 per pair.

How can R/L compete against this kind of support ?.

Its not to long ago the GB RL side were getting 65K+ for games at Wembley, 50k+ at Old Trafford, 35k+ at Elland road. We need something to rekindle the love of our national side, and I believe this down to the RFL and also the RL fans in this country to stop whining and get of their arris's to support the game.

It cant, and it never will.

Its not always been like that though has it? They as a sport have been and are moving forward quickly. Meanwhile over at the RFL we are still stuck in the dark ages and are going in the opposite direction even quicker.

Rugby Union is the national sport in Wales though isnt it? and the only one they are ever likely to do well in.

Obviously what you say is correct...BUT, too often this is an excuse to do nothing. Our goal should be to acheive the largest possible crowds. Whether that catches Union or not isn't the point.

Maybe I'm a fantasist, but *one day* in the distant future, I can imagine 1000's of people in the North going to watch a GB-Aus test on a big screen in a stadium somewhere. Screw it, I am a fantasist...I can't see any hope in hell of getting rid of the clowns at the RFL and they are incapable of setting the sport on that path.

With the recent setbacks to 'expansion' a lot of voices in League are starting to say 'look we just have to accept our place as a provincial sport'. This may be true if all you're thinking about is geography, but it's not an excuse to fail to maximize what we can acheive.

RL could be run *so* much better. External factors are no excuse for terrible leadership. Too many people on these boards use "well we'll never compete with the RFU" as some sort of excuse for Nigel Wood - one the most unspiring people I've ever seen or heard. ( BTW, I'm not saying that's what you are arguing, its just a general point).

One thing I've never understood is why 'expansion' has to have anything to do with geography. Expansion to me is just about getting the maximum audience in RL stadia, I don't care where they live. I'd be just as happy to see 20k watching Wigan and 20k watching a revitalized Leigh, as 20k watching a new club in Bristol (say).

International RL is a bit of a joke at the moment for me, thats just my opinion.

Bring back GB. Stop this embarassment of players switching from Ireland, Scotland etc just to get the chance to play the aussies! Bring back the GB & Ireland team permanently, continue the european nations comp between Wales, France, Russia etc with the inclusion of an England Knights squad.

That way anyone who is Welsh, Irish, Scottish, English or Irish can get the chance to wear a GB shirt in the future.

Stop this residency/grandparents bull!

AT LAST!!!
I knew I wasn't the only one!!

Too true. I think we need to expand into areas of the North before we start trying to go into areas which don't care about RL.

If the game could pump loads of money into clubs like Halifax, Leigh, Featherstone, Barrow (especially)... then I'm pretty sure they could be really succesful. Pumping money into a club with no historical support in a football or RU based area is just daft.

Lets not also forget that while RU is very strong down south, it has almost nothing up North. Leeds Carnegie will ALWAYS be in the shadow of the Rhinos and Leeds United. Sale RU are really starting to struggle and get shocking crowds, RL has just strengthened in this area with the new Salford stadium. Newcastle are not exactly a big club and are causing no damage in that area, football is the game in Newcastle.

I would love to see some of those clubs I mentioned brought back to life, it is possible. The time is NOW though especially in Yorkshire which has not had a premierleague football team for quite some time now.... we need the young kids growing up to be supporting their local rugby team...

The International game is a whole different story. We would need to turn back time to 80 years ago and realise the importance of it. We needed people with the forsight to have our own national stadium. MAYBE in time England, NZ and Aus can have that kind of support shown at the RUWC.... but we will never see Wales, Scotland, Ireland, France etc. get that kind of support. RU is slowly growing internationally as well, Argentina will now join Aus, NZ and SA in the four nations, I bet their stadium will be full on matchdays. Japan has an ever growing RU game and I'm sure it will take off with the amount of money knocking around. RU has even taken of in the USA. We just can't compete when we have so little to build on.

I wish Aus and NZ would do more to grow our national game, I have no doubt that if they had made the effort the RFL has in trying to expand to other countries then it would have been succesful. PNG could be a huge force in RL, they just need the facilties and financial backing, the fans and player base is already around.

It is a shame we couldn't build on the days of Maurice, its only 15 years ago since we were getting huge crowds at Wembley and Old Trafford. I long for those days to return, I just don't know what the answer is. I would suggest a massive part of it is that we don't have our own National stadium, Tiwckers and the Millenium stadium must make so much money in the UK for RU. If only we had our own National stadium which was owned by the RFL in the North of England.

I believe RL could be a success in the north-east, but the RL side would have to align itself to the football team, along the lines of Barca with its different sports.

Agree with your criticism of the fans, they will make any old excuse about why they don't support the international game.

Your figures are slightly out though. The only test games to get 65k plus at Wembley were World Cup finals, and I don't think we ever got over 50k at OT, but there is a point in what you say.

People say bring back GB as though that will fix the issues, but fans had stopped attending internationals when we did still have GB in there.

I don't necessarily disagree by the way, just that I don't think it would actually make much difference.

Also, people shouldn't overlook the potential in Wales. In the last two World Cups held over here, Swansea and Cardiff have attracted some very good crowds, some of the biggest of the torunament.

But its also got worse since the end of GB.

Wales dont have any fans, Ireland dont, Scotland certainly dont (Ofcourse im exagerating) but they just dont have the fanbase.

The RFL shouldve promoted GB rather than disbanded it. Reverting back to GB needs to be a start.

I remember at the end of every season nipping into JJB sports to get the new GB shirt and looking forward to the upcoming tests. Im English with Irish family so for me GB was an extension of my support for the Rhinos.

Since GB disbanded I can honestly say International RL has lost its appeal massively!