I'd like to see McDermotts win/loss ratio at Leeds?!

I know they win all the big games(only won 1 of thier last 3 finals) but how would you feel if Wigan couldn't put 6 wins together but were known for raising for the big games?

See from 85 - 95 we won most of the big games and were extremely consistant.

I feel like one of the very few ppl (which I dont mind and understand) that rate the Hubcap above the Super League trophy, so to me consistancy is more important. Thats just my opinion though.

Of course, consistant and winning finals would be perfectly acceptable.

McDermott is a very lucky man to be riding on the coattails of a set of proven champion players at superleague level. They won the 2011 GF in spite of him rather them because of him and I believe they've got to the challenge cup final much in the same way.

I'd love to sit here and write Leeds off but tonight simply doesn't matter and we know when games matter the 'real Leeds' turn up. If somebody put a gun to my head and said will they win the CC final I'd say no because I believe Wire are a better side in better form but you just can't count them out.

If we earn the club call in the play offs it's going to be a nightmare for us. It's a ridiculous concept much like the whole play off set up at the moment.

It's media recognition, silverware, revenue, titles, a place in the history books vs being satisfied for most of the season with a consistent side who play some great rugby league.

Personally I rate the league leaders shield way above the grand final and challenge cup but the recognition among opposing fans and the media is negligible. It's a great question but i'd have to go for the success over consistency, there's nothing better than watching your team awarded silverware, although in 2010 we truly earned the Super League and it felt all the more special for it.

They were running at about 50% tonight and used it as nothing more than a training game. Say what you like about Mcdermott and the Leeds squad but they are happy enough at the moment to play for 5th, and have also already secured the world club challenge and a place at Wembley. They have found a formula that works for them, irrespective of the fact that they don't have the personnel to be the best consistently over the course of a full season.

I think thats more of an indictment of the modern formula than on Leeds as a club/team or Mcdermott as a coach. They are the best at working the system, a lesson Warrington appear to have learned after last season and I fear we will end up learning the hard way as well.

I don't want to sound arrogant, but I have been saying this for years.

I only hope Wane knows what he is doing.

They will get battered by Wire and dumped out in the playoffs by one of the top 4.

Leeds just aren't good enough to win either trophy this season. You can't rely on Rob Burrow's speed and impact off a bench to win the vital games time after time. They have a poor pack aside from Jamie Peacock, halves with no imagination and Brent Webb at fullback, so win win.

** Famous Last Words **

Feel free for any Leeds fan to bump this and make me eat my f*cking words if you win the double

Bilko said something interesting on twitter about why should they push to get higher and end up playing Wigan at the DW in the play offs when they can fook about and play probably hull KR at home?

the system stinks but Leeds are clearly doing what they need to do. if they do what they did again last season then Wigan and Warrington being consistently the best teams in the league over the year will count for nothing and it will be their name on the trophy, but I fear that we could eventually end up with all the better teams just thinking "whats the point" lets just mess about for 28 games, makes sure we get atleast in the playoffs, preferably lower so we wont get harder games and then turn up the heat when it matters. It seems that Wire have learn't after last season and aren't yet at full throttle, and we'll probably learn the same lesson this year. If I was a Leeds fan paying money to watch them week in week out though, I'd rather be losing games because they aren't good enough rather than just because they aren't trying and acting like it doesn't matter.

Who cares about winning meaningless league games? Everyone knows the score at the beginning of the season, and Leeds have it right. It's clear to see that Warrington have rested players all season and haven't even challenged for the top spot either.

The reason the league leaders shield can't be considered important in the current system is because some teams simply don't even bother challenging for it. Nor do I blame them.

As long as there is a grand final system in place, it can't be considered anything but a 'hubcap' and sadly thats the way it is.

I agree with what you say about Leeds in general and the play off system - but I don't think you give the Wakefield defence enough credit. If Leeds only played at 50%, it was because they got battered up the middle and spent long periods without the ball in hand. To call it a training game doesn't seem fair to either side - would you normally expect to see two players sparked out in a training game?

I agree that it wasn't a training match.

This idea that Leeds only try in the 'the games that matter' mystifies me.

They're not good enough to exert such control over their own fortunes. Wigan were too complacent in that Cup game. They should have won it comfortably.

I really hope either ourselves or Wire win the Grand Final this year and put to bed this myth that a 5th-placed finish is a legitimate target, better than finishing 4th, or maybe even better than going all-out and finishing top.

Twelve months before Leeds' freak run last year, we were heralding Madge's success in changing the attitude of the Wigan club from Noble's "start slow, peak in the play-offs" style. It didn't work, we repeatedly came up short. Finishing top gave us a real benefit, even if we didn't take full advantage of it when we lost the home tie with Leeds.

Finishing 5th means it's straight knock-out rugby all the way. Yes, you get a theoretically 'easy' first weekend tie at home to the team in 8th, who probably have a losing record across the season, but what if they're a side that's been on a red hot streak to finish the regular rounds? Play-offs are a lot to do with form and momentum - say Wakefield won every game between now and September to finish 8th (they won't, but let's pretend); would you say with confidence that Leeds had a walk-over of a game, especially when their last meeting involved being well beaten by them last night?

Everyone is capable of throwing in a poor performance every so often. We did in the Cup semi earlier this month; the team finishing 5th has no room for error like that. There's always potential for a freak result. Finishing in the top four allows you to get a performance like that out of the way in the first week. If anything, it's 4th that's the position that gives a greater advantage than it perhaps should do; turn in a winning performance in the first week, get a week off, then you've got a home tie to reach Old Trafford, and no direct involvement in the Club Call nonsense. Lose in week one and you've still got a second chance.

Leeds may finish 5th and still win at Old Trafford this year, but it won't be because they've worked on a carefully calculated plan. They lose games like last night because they're not the force they once were. Sure, they seem to step it up a gear in the knock-out games - they have the big-game-winning experience to do that - but if Hull wind up in 5th place, would anyone really see them as the most real threat?

5th is not the new 1st.

I’ve heard it said that some teams (Leeds in particular) purposely don’t really wont to win some games as finishing 5th or so gives them some sort of a big advantage in the play-offs, I may be naïve but I think this is sh*te, I think this is just put about by some fans to try to cover up for a bad team performance (and not denied by some coaches for the same reason) although coaches would never say they would play that way anyway. No, more like Leeds on Monday played like they have for most of the season, indifferently. They, with the help of Popeye the Thaler-man caught us on day in the CC semi when we were way over confident, and if it was true that Wigan ever played a game with no intention of winning, I for one, would rip up my season ticket.

Those who believe that Leeds are doing it right and will win it form 5th should put their money where their mouths are as you can currently get 10/1 with Stan James against them winning the GF.

You can place the bet each way and still be in profit if they are losing finalists.

So would I, and both of us would be in the right.

The Wigan fans come down on their team hard whenever they lose, so imagine how life would be if they lost every couple of weeks and someone at the club tried to sell it as a crafty plan.

Firstly, we'd say it was a monumental risk - you still have to beat someone of worth to win the Grand Final (assuming you actually make the play-offs).

Secondly, we'd say it was hugely disrespectful to the fans who've paid to be entertained every week, not just in the last month of the season.

Thirdly, we'd say that the best way to win things is to get on a roll - stop/start is no way to conduct a campaign. We know, because we had that with Nobby.

Fourthly, we'd say we didn't believe it. At Wigan we've seen how great coaches and great teams operate - they go out to win EVERY week, thus creating golden ages and making themselves legends in the process.

And we'd be right on all counts. And if anyone disagrees, I ask you again to just imagine how you'd feel if Wigan had lost almost as many games as they'd won this season. We wouldn't buy any of this crap about playing clever strategies. We'd want Wane out and would be hard on Lenagan's back to bring in new, better players.