I suggest that you watch the England v France Academy game from last night and watch Robertson score 2 tries and have a great game.

He’s not massively inferior to Farrimond at all. He’s just playing for a risk averse coach. Peet would’ve drip fed him in to the team by now if he was at Wigan.

You’ll also be proved wrong by Vaughan too not that it takes much to prove you wrong.

Won't let me quote you RG but I couldn't disagree more with you. Normally I agree with more or less everything you say but not this time.

We were supposed to have a reaction to the pummeling at HKR which never happened, then it was from the Salford game away yet here we are. This team isn't capable of turning this around in a week with the quality of Walmsley, Makinson and Batchelor still missing amongst others.

Wigan will have too much pace and class in the backs and I'd be staggered if they don't win by at least 12. There seems to be apathy between the players now with Lomax blowing up a lot on Friday even though he was at fault for a lot of our awful attack. Wellens is now in that situation that coaches find themselves in where he has now thrown the players under the bus at his post-match presser. This only ends one way.

This isn't an emotional reaction but I said to my lads walking back to the car on Friday that I can see us losing every game in July. Friday is a defeat and then Warrington at home (they have a great record at our place) and Leigh A are both games we could conceivably lose.

I can only then imagine the fans reactions as toxic given the decline of a team that less than 2 years ago won the WCC in Australia (regardless of what some thought of Penrith's attitude)

It is going to be a very interesting few weeks

Of note is that Vaughan made his debut for the last 10 mins or so on Friday and it was clear how skinny he looked. How can Wigan produce the likes of Nsemba and Farrimond and they look like men in comparison? Robertson is another who is clearly going to be a superstar but at this stage looks like a skinny kid.

Good post The Reaper (I can't quote it for some reason)

I think Wello has served a much better apprenticeship than KC and has seemingly contributed to our success over the last few years. Last season there was mitigation too - an away WCC trip, a severe injury list and only just tipped off in two semi finals (we won ten on the spin between these two games to finish joint top). I think he made some good signings too and there was every reason to be optimistic this year IMO. Things are completely different now though and the longer Wellens has been coaching the worse we have been playing.

Tactically we are completely reliant on a full pack and he doesn't have the ability or the inclination to change things around when we don't have one. The playmakers are either out of form, playing injured and/or past it, but they must be collectively bored stiff by being stifled into repeatedly dropping off passes or kicking for defensive territory. They should be looking for more work but if it's against the tactics..?

Five blokes in the coaching box and not one positive idea or even slight deviation from the plan, even when we are behind late in the game. The decision to kick for two at 4-0 up on your opponents line with half an hour left was the most bizarre, negative and uninspiring decision I've seen in a long time. Simultaneously got the crown even more on the teams back whilst giving Cas the belief that we had fired our shot and didn't think we could score. Bearing in mind this is a team we put 60 on a month ago!

His use of interchanges is woeful and seemingly pre-programmed around these archaic tactics. This week Burns and Stephens came on and made a difference but they didn't get enough opportunity to turn the game our way despite looking capable of doing so (especially against this particular opposition). Last week he used 6/8 on the hottest day of the year, one of which was in the last minute and another one hurriedly made after the player he brought on was playing out of position and got smashed first carry.

Friday was a real turning point for me and these issues feed into the longer term plan of integrating this highly rated group of young lads and balancing the squad with signings and retentions. Can we trust Wellens to give these lads a fair shot at making it when they only get a brief opportunity out of necessity? And who externally would want to come into this rigid structure that bores the fans and players?

Whether he's signed again or not he needs to quickly make some positive changes or else the writing is on the wall and it's just a matter of when he gets his cards.

Two good posts there from SFW and The Reaper

Just had a look at the hanidcap for Friday. Wigan are -10. I wonder when the last time was that Wigan were -10 against Saints. The bookies aren't usually far off.

As bad as we were we are still perfectly capable of defending well for a full game. The price for Wigan to win is buying money barring a couple of red cards but we are rarely blown out of the water.

I agree with Stu and would be very surprised if we didn't win this one with some to spare. This current Wigan team is simply better than Saints. That's not opinion but is supported by the facts. A team that holds every available trophy, has already pouched the 2 available this year and sits 4 points clear at the top of the table with a game in hand is clearly the best in the league.

However, this is a derby and there are numerous examples of both sides turning form on its head so I certainly won't be counting any chickens just yet. Bring it on!