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FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Kaide Ellis |
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 29673 | |
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Nov 2004 | 20 years | |
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Oct 2024 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
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| Quote: Itchy Arsenal "He’s a bit of an enigma is Byrne.
Built like a proverbial brick outhouse, relatively energetic, usually dependable but rarely if ever shines.
I can have a blind spot for lads who come through the system but I do think that somewhere within Byrne is a decent prop. I had high hopes for Byrne this season but he seems to have regressed from his performances in 2022. I’m clinging to two possibilities that this season is just a blip. Firstly as a young guy following a World Cup year he maybe is just a little stale. Secondly, he’s still a baby at 23 and the best years are to come. Maybe Waney could do some extra special mentoring with him to get him his mojo?
If I could pick one lad to have a top game on Sunday it would be Byrne. I’d love him to really kick on but he needs to be aware that the clock is ticking and that he needs to pick up the mantle or when his current contract expires he could become another potentially good prop to fall by the wayside.
I like a bet and I’d back Byrne to produce the goods. Current form suggests that’s a long shot but I’m hopeful that he will deliver his potential.'"
I could be talking nonsense here but I always think a player’s personality has a real impact on how they play and how they cope with certain situations. He doesn’t strike me as the most confident of lads does Byrne and I think he seems like a guy who would really like to have strong leaders around him and to be able to just concentrate on doing his part.
This season, he’s been the only prop that seems to be available every week and the absences of Cooper, Ellis and Havard, combined with the poor form of guys like Singleton and at times, Mago, has meant Byrne is suddenly bearing much more of a burden. I don’t quite think he’s gained enough confidence yet to deal with that very well and he looks to have lost some confidence. He’ll be fine over time, especially if we can get the right support around him both this year and definitely next.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 29673 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2004 | 20 years | |
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Oct 2024 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
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| Quote: Phuzzy "I know that on Redvee everything Wigan is poor but, even by their standards, that's ridiculous. Ellis is exactly the sort of prop packs are built on. Consistent, great attitude, good metres, solid defence...what's not to like? It staggers me that they laud Lees, who is one of the poorest metre makers in the comp, is inconsistent and, when not playing off the back of Walmsley and Paasi, is almost universally anonymous yet decry someone like Ellis who beats him in every measurable metric! I guess he does lead their much vaunted "line speed" though, so that's ok. And what a stirling job of that he's doing this year too!
If we just go Ellis verses Lees and look at games they’ve run above 100 metres or under 50 metres, it stacks up as below-
Under 50 metres
Ellis 2
Lees 4
Over 100 metres
Ellis 4
Lees 2
Ellis has done that in 13 appearances, against Lees 17 appearances. Ellis hasn’t gone under 50 metres since game 4 as well, so after a slow start he’s got better and better.
It’s not telling us everything but if Ellis ain’t good enough for the bench of a mid table team, Lees best pack up and head off to the Championship. I actually like Lees as well tbh and appreciate they’re slightly different in style (but fundamentally their jobs are the same).
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 5477 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2006 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2024 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
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29557_1715786245.png :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_29557.png |
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| Quote: NickyKiss "If we just go Ellis verses Lees and look at games they’ve run above 100 metres or under 50 metres, it stacks up as below-
Under 50 metres
Ellis 2
Lees 4
Over 100 metres
Ellis 4
Lees 2
Ellis has done that in 13 appearances, against Lees 17 appearances. Ellis hasn’t gone under 50 metres since game 4 as well, so after a slow start he’s got better and better.
It’s not telling us everything but if Ellis ain’t good enough for the bench of a mid table team, Lees best pack up and head off to the Championship. I actually like Lees as well tbh and appreciate they’re slightly different in style (but fundamentally their jobs are the same).'"
Nothing against Lees, or Knowles either for that matter, but I've said many times they are both just good grafters. Neither has outstanding skill, they just (for the most part) work hard and with good intensity. There's nothing wrong with that. All teams need grafters. All teams need solid "7 or 8 out of 10 every week" players too. What gets my goat is how the Redvee lot elevate them beyond what they are whilst,at the same time, tagging players like Ellis as less than they are for fulfilling a similar role. Lees isn't a world-beater. He never will be. That's fine. Knowles isn't much better than Smithies (if indeed he has been better this season which I don't think he has). Neither will ever be Brad Fittler, Paul Sculthorpe or Ellery Hanley. That's fine too
Ellis is a quality player and a good addition to our team and culture and guess what? That's fine as well.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 29673 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2004 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2024 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
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10919_1322084665.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10919.jpg |
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| Quote: Phuzzy "Nothing against Lees, or Knowles either for that matter, but I've said many times they are both just good grafters. Neither has outstanding skill, they just (for the most part) work hard and with good intensity. There's nothing wrong with that. All teams need grafters. All teams need solid "7 or 8 out of 10 every week" players too. What gets my goat is how the Redvee lot elevate them beyond what they are whilst,at the same time, tagging players like Ellis as less than they are for fulfilling a similar role. Lees isn't a world-beater. He never will be. That's fine. Knowles isn't much better than Smithies (if indeed he has been better this season which I don't think he has). Neither will ever be Brad Fittler, Paul Sculthorpe or Ellery Hanley. That's fine too
Ellis is a quality player and a good addition to our team and culture and guess what? That's fine as well.'"
I have held back on saying this for a while, to just give him a bit more time to cement it in my mind but I now think Smithies has gone past Knowles. He’s outperformed him for a season and two thirds now and is adding things to his game. At the same time, I think Knowles has dropped off a little and has struggled to get his form going due to constantly missing games. Overall there isn’t much in it but there is no way I’d swap them.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 5477 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2006 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2024 | Oct 2024 | LINK |
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29557_1715786245.png :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_29557.png |
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| Quote: NickyKiss "I have held back on saying this for a while, to just give him a bit more time to cement it in my mind but I now think Smithies has gone past Knowles. He’s outperformed him for a season and two thirds now and is adding things to his game. At the same time, I think Knowles has dropped off a little and has struggled to get his form going due to constantly missing games. Overall there isn’t much in it but there is no way I’d swap them.'"
Whilst I can't claim to have seen every Saints game, in the ones I have seen Knowles has been way off previous year's form. In fact he's been largely anonymous for the most part. One of our Saints posters would be able to comment with more authority than myself but, factoring in what I've seen Saints fans themselves saying; that he shouldn't be their loose forward any more and that it's time for Bell to step up, I would surmise that he hasn't been breaking any pots. They wouldn't suggest moving their self proclaimed "best player in the comp" from his favoured position if he was doing the business there.
With all that in mind I would say Smithies has comfortably overtaken him this season. Even last, several journalists had him over Knowles in their end of season Dream Teams and the statistics supported that view. If he's better (and as I say, my personal view is he hasn't been this season or for large parts of last) it's, at best, marginal. Given their respective ages, I wouldn't swap them either. The problem is, unlike Knowles, I think Smithies is casting his eyes at the NRL.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
First Team Player | 1352 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2020 | 4 years | |
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Oct 2024 | Sep 2024 | LINK |
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| Until Knowles was mentioned I thought he had retired.
Smithies is a better player now.
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