Aside from Ellis, who I think has been playing consistently well and to a high level this year, none of our other props were anywhere near good enough to seriously expect us to beat Saints at their best.

Byrne, Singleton, Mago and Hill is not a front row that will really trouble teams. They simply aren't good enough. We went into this season knowing Byrne hasn't put a consistent run of good form together but presumably the club just hoped he'd get better, which isn't the case. It takes some decent young forwards to reach the age of around 28 before they are playing consistently at their best to make them dependable starters. We could be waiting a long time.
Singleton and Mago aren't good enough. The club obviously knew that a while ago as they were trying to ship Mago out but inexplicably decided not to and Singleton isn't getting a contract next year but is going to Salford. Why don't we try to move these players on if they aren't good enough and try to recruit better? We just keep hold of average players until their contracts run down rather than trying to move them on and recruit better. There are clubs interested in these players - there are plenty of recruiting props. Have ambition. Take a risk or two.

Hill, I thought he showed up pretty well in his brief stint, looked much more impressive than Singleton and Mago but he's just not at the level where he can compete with the forwards Saints have.

Havard is a huge miss, because he's a top quality prop. We should improve when he returns. Isa or KPP should make a difference on the right edge meaning we are capable of better than we're showing currently, but I think our wins over Saints and Wire early in the year were at a time when lots of our players were in good form and Saints were out of form and Wire had key forwards missing for that game.

It's obvious how little we threaten teams down the middle right now. It's been a long term issue and it's hard to see how we fix it. We've got issues in the halves and issues at hooker but honestly I don't think they are the biggest of problems. Our halves are struggling because the pack is not performing. We're trying to over-play without laying the platform so moves are rushed, rash decisions are made. Give the halves a bit more time and they will play better.

We may have recruited two high value centres in the off season but that's like fitting an F1 spoiler to a Ford Fiesta. Without any power there's no benefit, even if what you've got is of a high standard.

We haven't got a pack that matches the best teams in the competition so we're always going to be hoping our players can all hit peak form at the same time and that our main competitors don't. The pack is capable of playing better than it has been but I'm not sure we can do it consistently.

We as a club cannot scout props, I reckon someone is looking at highlights reels and basing the props on them alone or they’re after another Feka, or an intimidating hard knock to act hard all game or something rather than a workhorse. I do think we have got lucky with Ellis rather than good scouting because his stats were terrible in the NRL, they’ve improved here because I think someone like Ellis will want to improve their game whereas someone like Mago goes through the motions and does whatever little he can get away with.

Depending on what’s happening with Coopers injury and next season whether he will be here or not should prompt the powers that be to take action. So if he isn’t here next year get him off the books, get rid of Mago asap on loan for the rest of the season and bring in a short term replacement from the NRL.

the quote isn't working this morning, but this

'I can't understand why we seem obsessed with project or second string NRL players, other clubs bring in experienced NRL players'

its interesting as there's a lot of minds on our board, who cite wigan getting joy out of project nrl players, rather than whatever we sign and should follow your recruitment model.

it does seem that on both sides, the grass is always greener.

cant believe nobody is discussing Singleton, - he's absolute gash

seems like Mago gets all the stick, which he deserves, just give Singleton his fair share too....

Completely agree on Singleton, brings absolutely nothing. Hopefully both him and Mago are off at the end of the season and we are bringing in 2 props that actually have size that can push this team forward. I am disappointed with Byrne too this season, he seems way off it compared to last year. Does anyone know if he's carrying an injury maybe?
We're crying out for a second rower too. Say what you want about Bateman, but he always made metres and we are missing that aspect of his game so much.

manual quote
"the quote isn't working this morning, but this

'I can't understand why we seem obsessed with project or second string NRL players, other clubs bring in experienced NRL players'

its interesting as there's a lot of minds on our board, who cite wigan getting joy out of project nrl players, rather than whatever we sign and should follow your recruitment model.

it does seem that on both sides, the grass is always greener. "

that initial line was mine - and I referring specially to forwards (props) we have done ok with backs, well mostly, but our recruitment of forwards (as cheery.pie illustrated in the post after mine) has been poor - for several years we have been deperate for an experienced battle hardened prop and not project/second string props who almost invariably have been disappointing. Not so much grass being greener but more like being on the wrong lawn altogether!