Quote FearTheVee="FearTheVee"I'm not saying he didn't deserve a ban, just wonder what the 3/4 match difference between other recent hip drop tackles is all about - it's quite a gap!'" The Smithies tackle is reckless but he drops from the players hip and is the only man in the tackle. Knowles drops from full height in a 3 man tackle, even before the injury its a more dangerous challenge. Also From - https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/how-mike ... nal-72829/ The RFL’s mitigating and aggravating factors read “Injury can be used by the MRP (and consequently by the ORT) when considering appropriate grading in order to assess the degree of force and as an indication of the point of contact by a player when effecting a tackle. Foe example, if a player sustain a serious injury which results in a period of time away from the game as a result of misconduct, this may mean the grading is increased.” Add to that Knowles previous record, it's not that surprising he's got himself a longer sit down.

Quote FearTheVee="FearTheVee"I'm not saying he didn't deserve a ban, just wonder what the 3/4 match difference between other recent hip drop tackles is all about - it's quite a gap!'" The Smithies tackle is reckless but he drops from the players hip and is the only man in the tackle. Knowles drops from full height in a 3 man tackle, even before the injury its a more dangerous challenge. Also From - https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/how-mike ... nal-72829/ The RFL’s mitigating and aggravating factors read “Injury can be used by the MRP (and consequently by the ORT) when considering appropriate grading in order to assess the degree of force and as an indication of the point of contact by a player when effecting a tackle. Foe example, if a player sustain a serious injury which results in a period of time away from the game as a result of misconduct, this may mean the grading is increased.” Add to that Knowles previous record, it's not that surprising he's got himself a longer sit down.

Quote spartakmixtapes="spartakmixtapes"The Smithies tackle is reckless but he drops from the players hip and is the only man in the tackle. Knowles drops from full height in a 3 man tackle, even before the injury its a more dangerous challenge. Also From - https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/how-mike ... nal-72829/ The RFL’s mitigating and aggravating factors read “Injury can be used by the MRP (and consequently by the ORT) when considering appropriate grading in order to assess the degree of force and as an indication of the point of contact by a player when effecting a tackle. Foe example, if a player sustain a serious injury which results in a period of time away from the game as a result of misconduct, this may mean the grading is increased.” Add to that Knowles previous record, it's not that surprising he's got himself a longer sit down.'" Thanks for that - didn’t realise injury was taken into account. Seems a bit odd to me as it can be complete random luck whether dangerous play results in an injury but fair enough - rules are rules.

Quote spartakmixtapes="spartakmixtapes"The Smithies tackle is reckless but he drops from the players hip and is the only man in the tackle. Knowles drops from full height in a 3 man tackle, even before the injury its a more dangerous challenge. Also From - https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/how-mike ... nal-72829/ The RFL’s mitigating and aggravating factors read “Injury can be used by the MRP (and consequently by the ORT) when considering appropriate grading in order to assess the degree of force and as an indication of the point of contact by a player when effecting a tackle. Foe example, if a player sustain a serious injury which results in a period of time away from the game as a result of misconduct, this may mean the grading is increased.” Add to that Knowles previous record, it's not that surprising he's got himself a longer sit down.'" Thanks for that - didn’t realise injury was taken into account. Seems a bit odd to me as it can be complete random luck whether dangerous play results in an injury but fair enough - rules are rules.

Agree where injury is taken into account as that can happen at any point. Any form of strain / tear / ACL / MCL could occur whilst a player is running and no-one anywhere near them

if we take head high tackles too in a similar way to how boxers can be described. Player X can take a hit, so is hit high and thus no reaction, and probably laughs if off, however Player Y has a glass jaw, and suffers concussion from a lesser challenge, but that player could now be banned for more games than the other player

i get there is always going to be an element of subjectivity with regards to intent etc, and i dont think it has been too often that any of us have actually seen a player go out with the intention of deliberately injuring a fellow player (perhaps Les Boyd in origin

), and thus taking the injury into account or not is going to leave the disciplinary open to criticism over virtually every decision

It doesn’t mean that they are good rules or even if the rules are interpreted correctly by the match review panel. For me, the grading system should be dispensed with if you have a repeat offender with a second, third etc., offence attracting a greater penalty than the previous.

it shouldnt be brought into it fore that exact reason

Can Wigan de-register Cooper for 2023 and free up cap space? What is the latest guidance?

Not sure but the biggest issue it feels like we face, is us not having any quota spots available and we need to move somebody on, to get one in, which then still leagues us a player down. It’s difficult to see how a decent English forward becomes available (but then I suppose I’d have thought that last year and then we got Cooper himself).

The point about the extent of injury being taken into account is this
1) If you recklessly tackle someone in a dangerous manner then you are punished for taking the “risk” but luckily no injury caused so take this short ban as a warning about your technique/attitude
2) If you tackle as above and a significant injury is caused then that warrants further punishment.
Reckless means you are aware of the risk but take it anyway, it may be considered lucky that no serious injury was caused in scenario 1.
Logically you should probably receive the same severe punishment in 1) as in 2) but I imagine the outcry would be off the scale.
This is my interpretation, not the RFL’s.

There’s only so long a repeat offender can drop ‘lucky’ that he doesn’t injure somebody as well. He’s caused 18 months worth of injuries, in the last 6 months, with the same tackle and I believe had a caution in between for the same offence. He’s been looked at 44 times in 5 years by the RFL (great stat from the new Wigan way podcast, that the unbelievably dirty, thuggish, Micky Mac has been looked at 43 times in 15 years). His punishments need to get heavier going forward if he doesn’t change his ways. He is putting players careers at risk.

Good discussion, I have felt that bringing the result of the foul play into the ban was risky but, on reflection, it has to be the way. Would there be a legal issue here that the RFL would be liable if this was not the case?

On the specifics of the two incidents, Smithies hits Welsby across the back of the legs so is arguably less serious but deserving of a ban. Knowles fully swings across Cooper's legs (and for that matter, across his own players) so more serious?

Its interesting that the hip drop is now clamped down on and the tip tackle has fallen out of attention, time was any lifting of the hips above the shoulder was a pen or even a yellow. Are the RFL running the risk of having to police it again if a serious injury occurs?

Don't know if anyone is interested or if you've moved on, but the minutes from the tribunal are up on the rfl website now, interesting reading.