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icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock
"I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count"
[quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote]
Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!"
I thanked him and went on my Merry way!
RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015!
"The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth."
Officially one of the 119 Mugs used by the club:icons077e_files/5454-3678dentheman-msnicons.jpg |
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| Quote: NickyKiss "So you have a history of two bad reactions to signed off drugs, of which one nearly killed you but you don’t think that would be taken in to account? I can’t buy that at all. I’m not pushing for mandatory vaccines anyway but I just feel people should see it as a moral obligation, unless they have the sort of history that you have.
We never would and never should get to a situation where people who have gone through the traumas you clearly have, would be forced in to doing something that would cause them huge anxiety and potentially cause them harm but as I said in my previous post, let’s not dramatise this because the issue isn’t the extreme minority like yourself. It’s the anti vax, anti ‘I’m being told what to do’ clowns who drive this narrative and not people with cast iron concerns like you.
On your second point I also take the ‘vaccines aren’t preventing the spread’ with a pinch of salt. Do away with vaccines and let’s see where we’d have ended up! The absolute whoppers at the start of all this who just said ‘let it rip’ and it’ll be over and done with must feel pretty foolish now (probably not in truth, as they were the likes of Fielden and Cockayne).
As for the 22 footballers dropping dead post vaccine and all these rumours of heart problems and so on, it’s been pointed out earlier in this thread that you can find stats, pull out lines from articles etc that will support your beliefs.
I’m a Wigan Athletic fan and was shocked and saddened to hear of Charlie Wyke suffering a cardiac arrest in training recently. The rumours swirled round for days that it was vaccine related but alas, he hasn’t been vaccinated. Now I could sit here and back my argument by saying ‘I heard he had Covid and It was Covid that caused his heart problems’ and push the line that ‘if only he’d been vaccinated’ but I don’t know that either. It may just be the lad had a cardiac arrest because he had undiagnosed heart problems, just like the millions of people who had cardiac arrests pre Covid.
If I do go back to it for a minute, how do we know the vaccine is causing the increased heart problems, brain aneurysm’s you speak of? Could it not be Covid itself? It’s certainly proven that is causing a whole range of complications for people.
Either way I’m certain that the small number of deaths that have been caused by vaccines or people like to attribute to the vaccine, pale in to insignificance when compared to where we’d be without it.
In short-just get your bloody vaccine/boosters (unless you have a good reason not to, much like your good self).
Preaching over.'"
Correct
Correct
Correct
Correct
Etc
I can imagine the people of the UK closing their curtains for the first 18months of the bombing in WW2 and then saying I can't be d with this, those bombs haven't hit my house yet, there's more people dying of falls because it's dark than there is from bombs, it's up to me if I want to leave my light on, the government are not letting me have my freedom's the people in WW1 died for etc etc.
As you say, without the vaccines How bad could this have been 3rd wave onwards etc without the vaccines?
If we hadn't social distanced in waves 1,2 and 3 how bad would it have been?
As for the 2 rugby players you've named you can add HH to that
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| Quote: Choc Ice "Why does changing the definition matter? If you're questioning why they changed the definition that's fair enough but it seems like you and others are hinting at a lot more than that.'"
I'm hinting at nothing. I am merely stating a fact. They changed the definition of 'vaccine' in order to fit the Covid 19 treatment in. I said in the original post that it's up to each individual to decide whether that is relevant to them or not. However, whether you do or don't does not change the fact that it happened.
If you're asking why do I personally think it matters I'm more than happy to answer. I think it's important because transparency of information is important and should not be sacrificed on the alter of "noble lies". Once you start to bend the truth in order to fit a narrative or agenda, even if you perceive that agenda to be a good one, you are on a slippery slope. Who decides which lies are acceptable or not?
Unlike our friend Bob, I am more than happy to accept that someone else's opinion may differ and don't feel the need to insult them if it does. However, despite his protestations the Covid 19 treatments are not vaccines as, in order to classify them as such, the definition of what a vaccine is needed to be changed.
Using this logic we could tweak it again to read "a product that assists a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease” which, again, only changes a single word ("stimulates" to "assists"icon_wink.gif. However water would then adhere to this description and we could all happily inject water in the safe knowledge that we're being "vaccinated".
Whether you think truth matters is very much a personal choice. I happen to think it does.
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| Quote: Jukesays "Just copied a reply from someone who has been providing info throughout the pandemic on statistical/scientific analysis etc
A couple of things herein part, because of its “limited resources.”
2. I haven't read the first 55,000 pages. In fact, if you read a page per minute without sleeping, eating, or stopping for a single second, you would still be about 10,000 pages short by the next release.
Neither have I. I have however read someone else's summary of the information that has been released to date and it isn't pleasant reading! When Pfizer applied for FDA approval, they were aware of almost 158,000 adverse events. This really does not paint them in a favourable light. And now, a 38-page report features an appendix with a list that says Pfizer’s COVID vaccine has 1,291 side effects. The list includes acute kidney injury, acute flaccid myelitis, anti-sperm antibody positive, brain stem embolism, brain stem thrombosis, cardiac arrest, cardiac failure, cardiac ventricular thrombosis, cardiogenic shock, central nervous system vasculitis, death neonatal, deep vein thrombosis, encephalitis brain stem, encephalitis hemorrhagic, frontal lobe epilepsy, foaming at mouth, epileptic psychosis, facial paralysis, fetal distress syndrome, gastrointestinal amyloidosis, generalized tonic-clonic seizure, Hashimoto’s encephalopathy, hepatic vascular thrombosis, herpes zoster reactivation, immune-mediated hepatitis, interstitial lung disease, jugular vein embolism, juvenile myoclonic epilepsy, liver injury, low birth weight, multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children, myocarditis, neonatal seizure, pancreatitis, pneumonia, stillbirth, tachycardia, temporal lobe epilepsy, testicular autoimmunity, thrombotic cerebral infarction, Type 1 diabetes mellitus, venous thrombosis neonatal, and vertebral artery thrombosis among 1,246 other medical conditions following vaccination.
3. It wasn't being buried, it was being released at a normal rate. This is because that part of the FDA normally has about 10 employees who do this work. They have to redact all personal and proprietary info on every page potentially. And they are juggling, on average, several hundred other FOIA requests. This is a unique ask that requires a ton of external help to pull off.
Given the money this organisation has at its disposal, as a consequence of being funded mainly by pharmaceutical companies (maybe there could be a conflict of interest here?) then they should have the resources at its disposal, especially given that this vaccination was made available through emergency powers.
4. We almost certainly won't read anything new in these documents. The highlights are already released, and the safety profile has been well established with several billion data points now.
See point 2 above, when were you told about these side effects? Before you had the vaccination?
I believe I read that the FDA is handling, on average, about 400 FOIA demands at any one time. If you release 500 pages per month for each report, that's 200,000 pages released monthly. That's about 20,000 pages per month per employee. Once again, the antivax crowd uses a nugget of truth to build a bigger lie.
How can you conclude that the antivax crowd is building a bigger lie given that these are official documents released by the FDA? I am not antivax, as I have said previously I have had all my jabs but I think that people should be given the necessary information before they make their choice.
No one is hiding anything
They were desperate not to release the information and they denied contributing funds to the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
'"
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| Quote: Choc Ice "Why does changing the definition matter? If you're questioning why they changed the definition that's fair enough but it seems like you and others are hinting at a lot more than that.'"
Quite. It is hardly a gotcha.
There is this fake humility, that suggests it is modest to expect his complete lack of knowledge and experience to not mean his opinion and judgement should not be weighed above those who have worked in the ICU, developed and trialled vaccines etc.
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| Quote: Bob8 "Quite. It is hardly a gotcha.
There is this fake humility, that suggests it is modest to expect his complete lack of knowledge and experience to not mean his opinion and judgement should not be weighed above those who have worked in the ICU, developed and trialled vaccines etc.'"
The figures I posted were from Sage's own published paper. If you're suggesting Sage don't work in the relevant area and aren't qualified to comment, but you are, I suggest any humility, fake or otherwise, on your part would be an improvement.
You're sharing an opinion and don't work in the relevant area. Hypocrisy much?
Finally. The definition was changed. If you're going to keep pretending it wasn't, please provide evidence.
I've said multiple times now .. including in the very first post with which you took issue...that whether any individual attaches any relevance to that is personal choice (unlike yourself who feels only your opinion is valid). Further, I've explained in detail above why it matters to me (completely ignored by yourself so I'm assuming you have no reasoned, or indeed reasonable, argument to counter it).
I'm not exactly sure what it is about freedom of thought that scares or offends you so much but it's quite clear that you're completely incapable of accepting any view except your own and that debate to you consists of insulting or trying to belittle the person you're debating with.
You have offered nothing to counter any point I've put forward beyond an incorrect table from the Financial Times, some vague insinuation that any viewpoint other than your own must somehow be wrong and that if you belittle the person rather than the argument you are somehow "winning" the debate.
Anyway, put up or shut up time. Provide evidence that they haven't changed the definition in order to recategorise the new treatments as vaccines. It's a very simple request and one you should be able to accomplish without resorting to insults. Unless of course... God forbid...you're actually wrong. Surely not.
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| Quote: Phuzzy "I'm hinting at nothing. I am merely stating a fact. They changed the definition of 'vaccine' in order to fit the Covid 19 treatment in. I said in the original post that it's up to each individual to decide whether that is relevant to them or not. However, whether you do or don't does not change the fact that it happened.
If you're asking why do I personally think it matters I'm more than happy to answer. I think it's important because transparency of information is important and should not be sacrificed on the alter of "noble lies". Once you start to bend the truth in order to fit a narrative or agenda, even if you perceive that agenda to be a good one, you are on a slippery slope. Who decides which lies are acceptable or not?
Unlike our friend Bob, I am more than happy to accept that someone else's opinion may differ and don't feel the need to insult them if it does. However, despite his protestations the Covid 19 treatments are not vaccines as, in order to classify them as such, the definition of what a vaccine is needed to be changed.
Using this logic we could tweak it again to read "a product that assists a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease” which, again, only changes a single word ("stimulates" to "assists"icon_wink.gif. However water would then adhere to this description and we could all happily inject water in the safe knowledge that we're being "vaccinated".
Whether you think truth matters is very much a personal choice. I happen to think it does.'"
Thanks for the reply.
I guess I take the position bob8 is taking. I don't know how these areas work, whether they alter what fits in categories often or not. I just have to trust experts in relevant fields and the vaccines seem to be working.
Did this affect your decision whether to get vaccinated?(or take the shots and boosters if you prefer) and what is the relevance of the profits the Pfizer et al are making?
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