What summed KR up was the whole badge debacle. I heard him on 'Out of you League' podcast say they consulted 12 fans of all ages from kids to elderly, when questioned was this enough people, he hit back with he wanted to keep the number small to avoid leaks. Why keep it a secret? If you get a small number for feedback you may get all yes men which is what he got, or in usual managerial fashion they use the 'people are always hesitant when it comes to change, so they'll have to learn to like it' line.

The crap kits is also watering down our identity along with the new crap badge, why do we need a break away from cherry and white hoops every 3 years? Says who? KR? Alls it does it loses our identity, the all blacks, Brazil FC, Bath RU, Australia RL all have instantly identifiable shirts, we should also but bit by bit that identity is being stripped away. If they want to mess about with a kit do it with the away kit.

In the fans forum, he said we are spent up for next year? How in the actual flip are we spent up with the players we have lost and the players we are gaining? Serious mismanagement of the cap and like others have said there ia no stardust in any of the signings.

In yeard gone by a lot of clubs will say 'Yes he's a good player but is he a good person also' when they sign players, I think we say 'Yes he's a good person, what's he like at rugby?' And end up with a team of choir boys who can't play rugby.

It,'s clear KR is liked by IL, I'm not saying he should.leave the club but he needs a rapid demotion, one that involves having nothing to do with running the club or signing players

Also Matty Peet is not the answer, not now. We are in dire straights and the last thing we need is an inexlerienced coach who has never played or coached at the highest level taking over.

He 100% wants to be the best club in the world. He's a Wigan fan first and foremost.

What he won't do is break the salary cap and pay for players that don't want to be here.

The guy has put at least £5m of his own money (the current debt, all to him) into making sure the club pays up to the cap (over it technically with subsidies for marquee etc) and is competitive including bankrolling the club to the tune of £2.5m during a pandemic. All this why his own fans cba to go to games and claim that he's cheap.

Some decisions around players haven't worked out as we'd hope, but his main mistake has been keeping Lam for 3 years. Prior to that we were the SL Champions.

He also wants the best for the sport. Some of what he says is controversial and upsets a few people but it's usually the clubs who cba doing anything other than collecting the sky money every year, which is going down because RL fans cba watching RL so sky put more money elsewhere like the NFL for example.

I wanna be really clear here - I'm not bashing IL. I like plenty of the stuff he's done and he's been a great owner. I'm also not calling him cheap either - how anyone can look at Robin Park and say that is beyond me.

For me tho until he does break the cap, or at least calls out the BS around it - he's not trying to make the club the absolute best version that it can be. He's playing to rules that, let's face it, are designed to work against Wigan. I'm not talking about fantasy signings here either. I'm talking about being able to retain every talent we want & sign experienced guys to balance it out.

At the min, he's spending money on youth scouting, development & facilities knowing that, ultimately, other clubs will get the benefit of it. That's wrong and not good for Wigan.

Like I said in my OP, why should we have to chose between giving KPP a raise and missing out on a quality player for the here and now too? It almost feels like that, at the min, we know we've got a good crop of lads but they aren't fully ready for a couple of years. We don't want to get rid of them, because like I said they are good lads, but we also can't afford loads of alternatives because we're paying to keep a future team together.

Wire would win it every year if they scrap the cap

I'd hate it too.

Is that better than what we have now tho?

Then surely the logic of what you saying, sarge, points to a smaller SL? Less clubs to share the player pool means better standards, right?

But good luck to Lenegan (or anyone else) getting that past the SL chairmen.