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FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August |
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26.jpg Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18:26.jpg |
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| Quote: Jukesays "Come on Dave
First it was bad when people thought it was IL/KR only signed the players so lets have a go at them
Now because they say there are others in the process its they're deflecting blame so we'll have a go at them.
I'm sure IL would love to go and sign lattrell Mitchell, we haven't got the money and he wouldn't come etc etc
I've said it before, I will blame IL/KR for asking Lam to be there for 1 Yr, then subsequently extending it when the Edwards fiasco hit.
I do blame IL/KR for announcing Edwards without having his name on a contract and all details agreed, especially when they get stick normally for dotting i's and crossing t's and not announcing stuff earlier on most other things.
But the current trend of blaming rhem for everything is poor form.
We have failed do get the best out of virtually every player and every junior over the last 3 years with a lot actually regressing.
I blame Lam for that, but I blame IL/Rads for appointing/sticking with him too long.
We cant change the owners as easy, we need a strong coach and coaching set up that will oversee thigs and get us back on track (Look at the transformation at Saints since Holbrook came in, even with same owners that were getting flak for the previous 6/7 years whilst Wigan were doing so well).
The added complications of covid/less income/other rfl&sl issues make it a poor time to be struggling, but the overwhelming thingbi took away from the evening was that a lot of people are working very hard to get us through it and come out the other end "Relatively" unscathed and in a better position than most.'"
Despite all the issues stemming from the pandemic we learned the club still spends to the cap limit so how come when we do that we have ended up with such an unbalanced squad? Who is responsible for this?
Having read the minutes of the forum and in particular the bit about contracts for young players I am now convinced they have got it wrong as far as squad management goes. According to what Radlinski said they face a choice about paying the market rate for the young players when contracts come up for renewal or letting them go. He then said they have chosen to pay the market rate for players who they expect to mature in three or four years time. He also said he expected KPP's manager to come asking for a three or four times pay increase. (How stupid a thing to say is that? He's just invited him to do just that). We have several young players who the club decided to keep and pay the market rate of which I'd say Harvard and possibly Smithies are worth the punt. When KPP is up for renewal him as well but Byrne and Partington aren't worth paying the market rate for the next three or four years hoping they will be top players IMO. We need better, more experienced players than them [inow.[/i We'd have been better off letting them go and spending the money an experienced front row player.
The forum minutes tell us next year having recruited a half back we will be paying up to the cap limit (or within spitting distance of it) yet look at the squad we will end up with for £2.1m. We will have ONE specialist centre and that will be Thornley for goodness sake. Looking at the squad we will end up with and the wage bill we will have the club is paying too much money to several players. We will have numerous back rowers who all won't be able to get a game. Why is ISA's deal being renewed? He's hardly played in the pack all season because we have had no centres half the time so if he gets another deal which back row forward are we paying to sit out the game if he's back in the pack?
I think the root cause of the unbalanced squad we end up with is the policy of paying the "market rate" for too many young players. A couple of years ago Rads made no secret of the fact he liked the way Leeds did things who have a clear pay structure and salary bands. If I was a betting man I'd say he's implemented this slavishly so when we give four a five young players a contract as he described, they all jump to a particular wage. I obviously can't prove this but it's a plausible explanation looking at the fact the club is spending £2.1m and then looking at the squad and scratching your head as to where has the money gone. So now I have the context of those questions Rads put back to the audience about retaining young players, if I had been there I would have answered, yes you have got it wrong.
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| Quote: Ruddy Duck "The fact that talented players including Ratchford, Welsby, Williams etc no longer want to play for their own town club of Wigan is an indication of how the club has become a less attractive to some players not only from our own country buy also to some better players from down under and it comes as no surprise when other top clubs like Leeds, St Helens and Warrington all play in in brand new and regenerated Stadiums of their own.
Time that some supporters got off their high horse of arrogance and faced the fact that it is not only in the game of Rugby League where Wigan has now fallen behind nearby more progressive towns like St Helens and Warrington.
The rot except for the odd better season or so set in when the club left Central Park!'"
First of all, none of those you are aiming pot-shots at are responsible for that. The Gang of 4 have gone. Whelan and Mo have gone. All this was stitched up long before IL came on the scene. And none of the fans, even the 'arrogant' ones who 'ride on high horses' had any say in the matter and still don't.
Secondly, it's already been explained to us in painful detail why we can't have our own stadium at present. Even if we could afford one, the Council wouldn't let us. We would have to move outside of Wigan, which nobody wants.
Thirdly, I strongly doubt that the likes of Ratchford and Welsby (who I'm pretty sure was released by Wigan - it wasn't the other way round'), would only have played for us if we owned our own stadium. Seriously? Where on earth has that figment of imagination come from?
All the stars who have left us in recent years have left us to go to RU or the NRL. Not to Leeds, Saints or Warrington. GW came back to Warrington rather than us, but we all know why. They offered him a wage so ridiculously over what he's worth that he could hardly refuse.
The only way you're going to get what you seem to want - i.e. a stadium in Wigan that is purely for the use of Wigan RL - will be when Latics collapse. That may not be a long way off, but even if it happened next week, we'd then have to buy the DW ourselves, sell it and build another, smaller one. It's not going to happen overnight.
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| Quote: Ruddy Duck "The fact that talented players including Ratchford, Welsby, Williams etc no longer want to play for their own town club of Wigan is an indication of how the club has become a less attractive to some players not only from our own country buy also to some better players from down under and it comes as no surprise when other top clubs like Leeds, St Helens and Warrington all play in in brand new and regenerated Stadiums of their own.
Time that some supporters got off their high horse of arrogance and faced the fact that it is not only in the game of Rugby League where Wigan has now fallen behind nearby more progressive towns like St Helens and Warrington.
The rot except for the odd better season or so set in when the club left Central Park!'"
They were released by Wigan as youngsters. Ratchford wound up at Salford and Welsby (who I wasn’t aware was at Wigan once upon a time?) at Saints. There’s literally thousands of youth players Wigan have released over the years - me being one. Some went on to make Wigan regret it, others not. I don’t know what point you’re trying to prove here, what do you suggest we do? Keep hold of every youngster? Williams was never a Wigan player to sign. You’re picking and choosing players who didn’t sign for us, or who were actually RELEASED by the club to prove a point which is ludicrous - supposed world class players aren’t signing for Wigan because we don’t own a stadium, really? We’ve been in it for 22years and in that time we’ve signed;
Trent Barrett
Craig Smith
Brett Dallas
Steve Renouf
Paul Deacon
Stuart Fielden
Ryan Hoffman
Jeff Lima
Brett Finch
Jackson Hastings
George Burgess
Sam Tomkins
Mark Riddell
John Bateman
To name but a few. Jackson Hastings had a host of offers when leaving Salford, he signed for us. Bevan French hasn’t been short of suitors, he re-signed with us. Your argument has no basis whatsoever.
This “rot” isn’t really a rot seeing as we’ve won trophy after trophy and made final after final in the last 11years. I’ll take that kind of “rot” everyday of the week.
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| Quote: Cruncher "First of all, none of those you are aiming pot-shots at are responsible for that. The Gang of 4 have gone. Whelan and Mo have gone. All this was stitched up long before IL came on the scene. And none of the fans, even the 'arrogant' ones who 'ride on high horses' had any say in the matter and still don't.
Secondly, it's already been explained to us in painful detail why we can't have our own stadium at present. Even if we could afford one, the Council wouldn't let us. We would have to move outside of Wigan, which nobody wants.
Thirdly, I strongly doubt that the likes of Ratchford and Welsby (who I'm pretty sure was released by Wigan - it wasn't the other way round'), would only have played for us if we owned our own stadium. Seriously? Where on earth has that figment of imagination come from?
All the stars who have left us in recent years have left us to go to RU or the NRL. Not to Leeds, Saints or Warrington. GW came back to Warrington rather than us, but we all know why. They offered him a wage so ridiculously over what he's worth that he could hardly refuse.
The only way you're going to get what you seem to want - i.e. a stadium in Wigan that is purely for the use of Wigan RL - will be when Latics collapse. That may not be a long way off, but even if it happened next week, we'd then have to buy the DW ourselves, sell it and build another, smaller one. It's not going to happen overnight.'"
Keep wearing the blinkers!
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International Chairman | 1470 | |
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Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
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| Quote: 100% Warrior "They were released by Wigan as youngsters. Ratchford wound up at Salford and Welsby (who I wasn’t aware was at Wigan once upon a time?) at Saints. There’s literally thousands of youth players Wigan have released over the years - me being one. Some went on to make Wigan regret it, others not. I don’t know what point you’re trying to prove here, what do you suggest we do? Keep hold of every youngster? Williams was never a Wigan player to sign. You’re picking and choosing players who didn’t sign for us, or who were actually RELEASED by the club to prove a point which is ludicrous - supposed world class players aren’t signing for Wigan because we don’t own a stadium, really? We’ve been in it for 22years and in that time we’ve signed;
Trent Barrett
Craig Smith
Brett Dallas
Steve Renouf
Paul Deacon
Stuart Fielden
Ryan Hoffman
Jeff Lima
Brett Finch
Jackson Hastings
George Burgess
Sam Tomkins
Mark Riddell
John Bateman
To name but a few. Jackson Hastings had a host of offers when leaving Salford, he signed for us. Bevan French hasn’t been short of suitors, he re-signed with us. Your argument has no basis whatsoever.
This “rot” isn’t really a rot seeing as we’ve won trophy after trophy and made final after final in the last 11years. I’ll take that kind of “rot” everyday of the week.'"
Keep wearing the blinkers!
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| Quote: Ruddy Duck "Keep wearing the blinkers!'"
Alternatively, "I can't argue with a single one of the points you make, so I won't try."
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Wigan |
29 |
768 |
338 |
430 |
48 |
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Hull KR |
29 |
731 |
344 |
387 |
44 |
Warrington |
29 |
769 |
351 |
418 |
42 |
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442 |
138 |
33 |
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28 |
556 |
561 |
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32 |
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618 |
411 |
207 |
30 |
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Catalans |
27 |
475 |
427 |
48 |
30 |
Leeds |
27 |
530 |
488 |
42 |
28 |
Huddersfield |
27 |
468 |
658 |
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20 |
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27 |
425 |
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328 |
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317 |
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420 |
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York |
29 |
695 |
501 |
194 |
32 |
Widnes |
27 |
561 |
502 |
59 |
29 |
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634 |
525 |
109 |
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Sheffield |
26 |
626 |
526 |
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28 |
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498 |
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509 |
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