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| Quote Grimmy="Grimmy"Conditions on the ground change. It's hardly a shock move to extend a coach who finished top of the league and took us very close to winning the GF. I want him sacked now but that doesn't mean it was wrong to give him the contract at the time.'"
Have you forgotten how 2019 ended? Lost both playoff games 40-10 to Saints and Lam was coached off the park in the home loss to Salford which was something like 8-24. In any case they only employed him originally for one season as a caretaker. As soon the Edwards thing blew up in their faces they should have been looking to see if there were better candidates, not taking the easy and in my opinion lazy option of just extending Lam’s deal.
That seeming laziness extends to contracts for players like extending Clubbs deal at his age and level of performance and not looking to improve when players contracts are up by checking out if better players are available rather than automatically (it seems) taking the easy option of extending contracts. It’s not just about who signs on the dotted line being IL and Rads but whether or not there is any ambition to improve. We have had two versions of who decides who is signed, that from Suzy B’s contact and the other from Jukesays but if we go with the latter it’s as if Rads and IL are the last in the chain of decision makers just signing the contract but I am none the wiser as to how or it the club decides it’s time for a new player in a certain position because we need a better player.
Perhaps if they hadn’t had the information blackout I’d have a better idea on that but as it is we have different takes on it which doesn’t help. | | |
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| Club Owner | 7792 | Wigan Warriors |
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| Mar 2004 | 21 years | |
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Quote Trainman="Trainman"I really just don’t understand this. Jukes, I don’t doubt any of what you say and if I knew what you do I’d probably agree.
I’ve been following this club since I was 2 months old & taken to CP in a big silver link pram. I’ve seen plenty of ups and downs but always been supportive and in many cases defended the club. I never at any point would have thought I’d be questioning whether I should continue that support.
It has nothing to do with on field performances, off field issues, recruitment etc.
This whole charade has left me completely disillusioned and to a certain extent angry with the club. If they want to explain things then explain them to us all, if not then don’t. I know it’s been said there are reasons they won’t release the details, assuming they are valid then why hold the forum in the first place. All they have achieved is appeasing 120 people and alienating thousands.'"
Which bit of it do you not understand?
If its the bit about not streaming it I've said a dozen times I'm 50/50
I can honestly see why people may question it, but I can see, given negotiations/issues the club are currently involved with and have been involved in with a number of other parties they may not want to risk being caught on the hop.
I get the argument that they could have done a forum "light" and live streamed it, but I'm sure lots of people, pro abamy the same who are up in arms now would probably call it rubbish and they didn't tell us any detail etc.
If they edit it and put it out delayed im sure there will ne complaints about that.
Now I expected people having a whinge, but people saying that's them done with the club, being appalled etc somenofnthe language used about thise that went, I could go on.
I've spoke to 4/5 mates who couldn't go in last 2 days, none of them Have moaned about not going. Maybe thats not a fair sample, who knows? Maybe 99% of people.are outraged?
I suspect the outraged may be the most vocal 10%, but I could be wrong
I can honestly say, if I hadn't have gone, or it clashed and I couldnt go I genuinely wouldn't have given it more than 2 seconds thought.
Picked up a few snippets here amd there, spoke to people who may have gone etc.
But maybe I'm in the minority, I'm not one of those that thinks I need to know everything
I don't get outraged about stuff and feel I have to comment on most stuff (ill clarify that, I mean I'm not one-off those on twitter, Facebook commenting or having opinions on stuff all the time).
What typing someone put this in out WhatsApp group
https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby- ... es-3369420
I think to myself what makes people do that?
I don't like Lam as a coach, but I do wonder if people actually think before they say things, do things etx. And the gods honest truth is i don't think so
As I said the other day, I thought that people may be understanding more of the issues,problems etc that people have gone through and show a bit of u derstanding
But it seems like some people are even more enraged about the tiniest thig etc and perceived wrongdoings theyve "suffered" than they ever were.
It'll its about any particular topic you'd have to be more specific. |
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Quote Trainman="Trainman"I really just don’t understand this. Jukes, I don’t doubt any of what you say and if I knew what you do I’d probably agree.
I’ve been following this club since I was 2 months old & taken to CP in a big silver link pram. I’ve seen plenty of ups and downs but always been supportive and in many cases defended the club. I never at any point would have thought I’d be questioning whether I should continue that support.
It has nothing to do with on field performances, off field issues, recruitment etc.
This whole charade has left me completely disillusioned and to a certain extent angry with the club. If they want to explain things then explain them to us all, if not then don’t. I know it’s been said there are reasons they won’t release the details, assuming they are valid then why hold the forum in the first place. All they have achieved is appeasing 120 people and alienating thousands.'"
Which bit of it do you not understand?
If its the bit about not streaming it I've said a dozen times I'm 50/50
I can honestly see why people may question it, but I can see, given negotiations/issues the club are currently involved with and have been involved in with a number of other parties they may not want to risk being caught on the hop.
I get the argument that they could have done a forum "light" and live streamed it, but I'm sure lots of people, pro abamy the same who are up in arms now would probably call it rubbish and they didn't tell us any detail etc.
If they edit it and put it out delayed im sure there will ne complaints about that.
Now I expected people having a whinge, but people saying that's them done with the club, being appalled etc somenofnthe language used about thise that went, I could go on.
I've spoke to 4/5 mates who couldn't go in last 2 days, none of them Have moaned about not going. Maybe thats not a fair sample, who knows? Maybe 99% of people.are outraged?
I suspect the outraged may be the most vocal 10%, but I could be wrong
I can honestly say, if I hadn't have gone, or it clashed and I couldnt go I genuinely wouldn't have given it more than 2 seconds thought.
Picked up a few snippets here amd there, spoke to people who may have gone etc.
But maybe I'm in the minority, I'm not one of those that thinks I need to know everything
I don't get outraged about stuff and feel I have to comment on most stuff (ill clarify that, I mean I'm not one-off those on twitter, Facebook commenting or having opinions on stuff all the time).
What typing someone put this in out WhatsApp group
https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby- ... es-3369420
I think to myself what makes people do that?
I don't like Lam as a coach, but I do wonder if people actually think before they say things, do things etx. And the gods honest truth is i don't think so
As I said the other day, I thought that people may be understanding more of the issues,problems etc that people have gone through and show a bit of u derstanding
But it seems like some people are even more enraged about the tiniest thig etc and perceived wrongdoings theyve "suffered" than they ever were.
It'll its about any particular topic you'd have to be more specific. | |
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This absolute bore fest makes me laugh. Relative success, half decent entertainment, and a few trophies and nobody gives a monkeys. We struggle a bit, have a couple of off seasons, IMO some problems that are fairly easily fixed to have us up there again, and the fan base is in absolute uproar about poor communication & being kept in the dark, when in reality it’s no better or worse than it has been for years.
We’re up there competing and most don’t bat an eyelid, we’re struggling (by our own high standards) and the masses are frothing at the mouth because we don’t know every minor detail about what’s going on behind the scene to make us “Wigan” again.
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| International Chairman | 5392 | Wakefield Trinity |
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Quote Jukesays="Jukesays"Which bit of it do you not understand?
If its the bit about not streaming it I've said a dozen times I'm 50/50
I can honestly see why people may question it, but I can see, given negotiations/issues the club are currently involved with and have been involved in with a number of other parties they may not want to risk being caught on the hop.
I get the argument that they could have done a forum "light" and live streamed it, but I'm sure lots of people, pro abamy the same who are up in arms now would probably call it rubbish and they didn't tell us any detail etc.
If they edit it and put it out delayed im sure there will ne complaints about that.
Now I expected people having a whinge, but people saying that's them done with the club, being appalled etc somenofnthe language used about thise that went, I could go on.
I've spoke to 4/5 mates who couldn't go in last 2 days, none of them Have moaned about not going. Maybe thats not a fair sample, who knows? Maybe 99% of people.are outraged?
I suspect the outraged may be the most vocal 10%, but I could be wrong
I can honestly say, if I hadn't have gone, or it clashed and I couldnt go I genuinely wouldn't have given it more than 2 seconds thought.
Picked up a few snippets here amd there, spoke to people who may have gone etc.
But maybe I'm in the minority, I'm not one of those that thinks I need to know everything
I don't get outraged about stuff and feel I have to comment on most stuff (ill clarify that, I mean I'm not one-off those on twitter, Facebook commenting or having opinions on stuff all the time).
What typing someone put this in out WhatsApp group
https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby- ... es-3369420
I think to myself what makes people do that?
I don't like Lam as a coach, but I do wonder if people actually think before they say things, do things etx. And the gods honest truth is i don't think so
As I said the other day, I thought that people may be understanding more of the issues,problems etc that people have gone through and show a bit of u derstanding
But it seems like some people are even more enraged about the tiniest thig etc and perceived wrongdoings theyve "suffered" than they ever were.
It'll its about any particular topic you'd have to be more specific.'"
Putting aside the should they/shouldn't they have done the forum debate. I'm just left asking myself, what did the club get from it? What benefit have they made from holding the forum? |
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Quote Jukesays="Jukesays"Which bit of it do you not understand?
If its the bit about not streaming it I've said a dozen times I'm 50/50
I can honestly see why people may question it, but I can see, given negotiations/issues the club are currently involved with and have been involved in with a number of other parties they may not want to risk being caught on the hop.
I get the argument that they could have done a forum "light" and live streamed it, but I'm sure lots of people, pro abamy the same who are up in arms now would probably call it rubbish and they didn't tell us any detail etc.
If they edit it and put it out delayed im sure there will ne complaints about that.
Now I expected people having a whinge, but people saying that's them done with the club, being appalled etc somenofnthe language used about thise that went, I could go on.
I've spoke to 4/5 mates who couldn't go in last 2 days, none of them Have moaned about not going. Maybe thats not a fair sample, who knows? Maybe 99% of people.are outraged?
I suspect the outraged may be the most vocal 10%, but I could be wrong
I can honestly say, if I hadn't have gone, or it clashed and I couldnt go I genuinely wouldn't have given it more than 2 seconds thought.
Picked up a few snippets here amd there, spoke to people who may have gone etc.
But maybe I'm in the minority, I'm not one of those that thinks I need to know everything
I don't get outraged about stuff and feel I have to comment on most stuff (ill clarify that, I mean I'm not one-off those on twitter, Facebook commenting or having opinions on stuff all the time).
What typing someone put this in out WhatsApp group
https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby- ... es-3369420
I think to myself what makes people do that?
I don't like Lam as a coach, but I do wonder if people actually think before they say things, do things etx. And the gods honest truth is i don't think so
As I said the other day, I thought that people may be understanding more of the issues,problems etc that people have gone through and show a bit of u derstanding
But it seems like some people are even more enraged about the tiniest thig etc and perceived wrongdoings theyve "suffered" than they ever were.
It'll its about any particular topic you'd have to be more specific.'"
Putting aside the should they/shouldn't they have done the forum debate. I'm just left asking myself, what did the club get from it? What benefit have they made from holding the forum? | |
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| Moderator | 14395 | No
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| Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
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| Quote Akinwale Arobieke="Akinwale Arobieke"Can't believe nobody piped up when asked if anybody had an issue with the policy of promoting youth. There's a difference between promoting it and the complete over reliance we've got on it now, especially in the pack. Half that pack is not Super League standard and I doubt ever will be. Paul Sculthorpe hit the nail on the head last week when he said too many in our pack don't look Super League ready. The reason the gap between Saints and us is getting wider is because they know how to bring their youth through. Gradually and with the support of seasoned pros all around them. There's method in the Saints approach. And fair play to them, they're reaping the rewards.'"
Me either though I think it was unfair to expect the fans to answer the question. Saying they disagreed could make it sound as if they were being disloyal and they presumably wouldn’t want to do that. They weren’t there to answer questions so that sounds a rather cynical move by Rads to deflect from an obvious issue by putting fans on the spot.
It doesn’t matter how well the youth system has worked in the past, we have ended up with a pack far too reliant on youth. The fact we have isn’t a poor reflection on the youth system anyway. It’s a poor reflection on the squad management. If Clubb and Clarke aren’t the right players to spell the kids with that isn’t their fault but the clubs for having those two as the senior props. | | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Owner | 7792 | Wigan Warriors |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2004 | 21 years | |
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| Quote DaveO="DaveO"Have you forgotten how 2019 ended? Lost both playoff games 40-10 to Saints and Lam was coached off the park in the home loss to Salford which was something like 8-24. In any case they only employed him originally for one season as a caretaker. As soon the Edwards thing blew up in their faces they should have been looking to see if there were better candidates, not taking the easy and in my opinion lazy option of just extending Lam’s deal.
That seeming laziness extends to contracts for players like extending Clubbs deal at his age and level of performance and not looking to improve when players contracts are up by checking out if better players are available rather than automatically (it seems) taking the easy option of extending contracts. It’s not just about who signs on the dotted line being IL and Rads but whether or not there is any ambition to improve. We have had two versions of who decides who is signed, that from Suzy B’s contact and the other from Jukesays but if we go with the latter it’s as if Rads and IL are the last in the chain of decision makers just signing the contract but I am none the wiser as to how or it the club decides it’s time for a new player in a certain position because we need a better player.
Perhaps if they hadn’t had the information blackout I’d have a better idea on that but as it is we have different takes on it which doesn’t help.'"
I agree with most of that and april/may 2019 id have been looking for the "Right man" as 3 games in I wasn't happy about Lams appointment (if I'm honest I wasn't happy with him holding the reigns for 1 years but I'd convinced myself I could out up with a year). The decision to extend his contract was really poor imo
I've said for 2 years now that we've Played well no more than a dozen times in 80 plus games
I don't think I need to say anymore about the Tony Clubb decision, cost me about anextra 30euros of beer and a massive hangover rwhen in Barcelona after id head theyd announced it.
As for who makes the signings
If I gave the impression they were just the last in the line signing the deal off then I apologise
What I will say is that they definitely did not say they pick the players and are totally in charge.
It was a statement of "The buck stops with us", but they talked about when the club had identified the need to look for players in specific positions, or coaches/scouts had identified potential talent there were was opportunity for all parties to have their say, he even gave an example of one were Lam had really wanted a particular player, pushed it and the deal was signed off by Rads/IL and another scenario where he talked about Matty Peet doing the background work and identifying players and how that is then filtered through the club with input from every department but as they said "The buck stops here". And ultimately as the finances and contracts have to be done by director of rugby/owner then it has to be that way.
They never said they choose, pick, decide etc. | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Owner | 7792 | Wigan Warriors |
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| Mar 2004 | 21 years | |
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| Quote DaveO="DaveO"Me either though I think it was unfair to expect the fans to answer the question. Saying they disagreed could make it sound as if they were being disloyal and they presumably wouldn’t want to do that. They weren’t there to answer questions so that sounds a rather cynical move by Rads to deflect from an obvious issue by putting fans on the spot.
[uIt doesn’t matter how well the youth system has worked in the past, we have ended up with a pack far too reliant on youth. The fact we have isn’t a poor reflection on the youth system anyway. It’s a poor reflection on the squad management. If Clubb and Clarke aren’t the right players to spell the kids with that isn’t their fault but the clubs for having those two as the senior props.[/u'"
I'm not with you on the Rads question to the audience, he didn't dwell on it, he just asked it mid sentence and seemed to be more of a "Surely you don't want us to change this approach"?
The Highlighted bit is interesting, because they did mention that there were occasions when players not being selected to compliment the youth had them scratching their heads. Spoke to someone earlier today and they said someone was telling him that IL/Rads tell Lam who to pick  , I can't believe that to be true and would make me question Lam even more. So I'll leave that as complete and utter BS.
In the bit where they talked about Lam leaving they didn't crucify him, but I got an undercurrent that certain things like that had played a part in their decision to let him go. Now thats a short explanation of my feeling of what went on, it was far more nuanced than that. But I'm just trying to show that they accepted that things hadn't been good enough and that it was time to part ways. | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Owner | 7792 | Wigan Warriors |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2004 | 21 years | |
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| Quote 100% Warrior="100% Warrior"In his latest surgery he was operated on by a surgeon who operated on a South African RU player who had the same (if not mildly different) hip injury who then went on to continue representing SARU. It’s little surprise to me to see him back playing but one does wonder with regards to the above how and why the club are playing a naivety card on the matter.'"
They didn't play niave, they said they e created the issue by working him too hard etc etc.
That imo meant that they didn't manage the condition the way they should have done and that caused the situation were else then couldn't perform to the level he had at Souths were the same injury was being managed correctly. | | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Owner | 7792 | Wigan Warriors |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2004 | 21 years | |
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| Quote Egg Chasing="Egg Chasing"'"
Yip
You quoted the important part | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Moderator | 14395 | No
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| Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
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| Quote Jukesays="Jukesays"I'm not with you on the Rads question to the audience, he didn't dwell on it, he just asked it mid sentence and seemed to be more of a "Surely you don't want us to change this approach"?
The Highlighted bit is interesting, because they did mention that there were occasions when players not being selected to compliment the youth had them scratching their heads. Spoke to someone earlier today and they said someone was telling him that IL/Rads tell Lam who to pick
, I can't believe that to be true and would make me question Lam even more. So I'll leave that as complete and utter BS.
In the bit where they talked about Lam leaving they didn't crucify him, but I got an undercurrent that certain things like that had played a part in their decision to let him go. Now thats a short explanation of my feeling of what went on, it was far more nuanced than that. But I'm just trying to show that they accepted that things hadn't been good enough and that it was time to part ways.'"
As to Rads question it read as though Rads was challenging the audience not as if it was mentioned in passing. As you said no one piped up with an answer I took that to mean it was a direct and pointed question.
If the selections had them scratching their heads I am left wondering why they didn’t do something about it earlier. In my opinion the fact Lam has played a pack of young players far too often is damaging those players you mentioned they see as integral to the pack in the next few years. What were they afraid of? | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Moderator | 14395 | No
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| Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
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| Quote Jukesays="Jukesays"They didn't play niave, they said they e created the issue by working him too hard etc etc.
That imo meant that they didn't manage the condition the way they should have done and that caused the situation were else then couldn't perform to the level he had at Souths were the same injury was being managed correctly.'"
So who was responsible for over training him then? This is a pretty astonishing admission that our coaching and physios aren’t up to the job. | | | |
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