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Player Coach | 3003 | Wigan Warriors |
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| Quote 100% Warrior="100% Warrior"I completely agree with the over coaching and robotic point but from time to time we do see the teams that play with flair and off the cuff such as Cas and more recently St Helens. As much as we may complain about structure and robotics; it’s what won us trophies under both Maguire and Wane. There’s a balance to be found IMO.
I get where you’re coming from re substitutes but not quite sure I entirely agree. I’m for the rolling on/off substitutes to be honest, I have a soft spot for impact players who more often than not are proven to be good game players too.'"
Maybe we have had the wrong balance? Winning trophies and reduced attendances sounds like a oxymoron to me.
Sorry to disagree but I dont in general like "impact" players. If they were any good they would be in the starting 13.
Name me half a dozen great or even really good impact players?
I know that you will name some and im sure they may be decent players but if they are that good why put them on the bench?? Will your list of impact players include any backs?
Multiple substitutions leads to athletes rather than rugby players.
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International Star | 2795 | No Team Selected |
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Jun 2011 | 14 years | |
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| Quote Last Son of Wigan="Last Son of Wigan"
Point accepted. All teams get injuries, no argument there. Saints were better than anybody last season by a distance but had great fortune in keeping key players on the park.
We missed key players for months on end. We had a pack of boys on occasion and whilst we saw the emergence of Smithies and Partington, they should never have been bloodied that way. The truth was, we simply had no choice.
We lost our 2 starting wingers for months (Burgess & Manfredi, then lost our back up winger for the season (Davies). We lost Flower, Bullock and Clubb for months. Lost our two second rows in Greenwood and Faz for months. We lost Powell, Sarginson, Sammut,.....
My point is simple. I don’t believe any side with an injury crisis like we had would have played scintillating rugby, especially when all the other off field issues are taken into account. We got players back after the damage was done. They were not properly fit and carried knocks. It was a case of ‘revert to type’ to get wins and it worked. It was a bridge too far in that semifinal with players carrying knocks and just not fit enough. (I also credit Salford for a cracking performance).
Will I be as forgiving next season? Absolutely not. I can’t see anything like the off field issues happening again and I’m just hoping for fewer long term injuries. If we can keep our squad mostly healthy, I’m confident we’ll go well.
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Player Coach | 4784 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote Bigredwarrior="Bigredwarrior"
We were poor all season mate. Even when everyone was fit. Looked clueless and effortless even when it counted the most.
I wish we did ‘refer to type’ I would have loved us to refer to how we played under Wane. Under Lam we look a mess, nothing was more startling than how we played v Salford. The game wasn’t even close. A home game, 80 mins away from a GF and we were a million miles off. If it was a case of 2 teams playing excellent rugby with Salford just pipping us I might have found something to be positive over; sadly that wasn’t the case.
I’ll say it now and I hope I’m wrong. We’ll not win anything meaningful under Lam.
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International Chairman | 5392 | Wakefield Trinity |
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Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
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| Quote Last Son of Wigan
There have been times under Wane when we looked no different than what we have looked under Lam.
Inconsistency has been a problem at Wigan since Madge left!="Last Son of Wigan
There have been times under Wane when we looked no different than what we have looked under Lam.
Inconsistency has been a problem at Wigan since Madge left!
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Club Coach | 7439 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2005 | 20 years | |
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| Quote Itchy Arsenal="Itchy Arsenal"Maybe we have had the wrong balance? Winning trophies and reduced attendances sounds like a oxymoron to me.
Sorry to disagree but I dont in general like "impact" players. If they were any good they would be in the starting 13.
Name me half a dozen great or even really good impact players?
I know that you will name some and im sure they may be decent players but if they are that good why put them on the bench?? Will your list of impact players include any backs?
Multiple substitutions leads to athletes rather than rugby players.'"
I can name some but I don’t see the point. You clearly aren’t a fan of impact players, which is fine by the way it’s not a criticism of you but me naming some won’t change your mind.
Re balance perhaps we did but it was successful. I would much rather a SW type style that was consistently winning trophies and beating our nearest and dearest rivals than a free-flowing, no idea what we’re doing style we adopted last season which resulted in us being torn to pieces by Saints each time we played them and in reality we were never really serious contenders for the SL trophy.
I’m not convinced Lam has the credentials or ability to strike that balance. We have the players to do it but it’s the coach where the biggest question mark is for me.
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| Quote Ruddy Duck="Ruddy Duck"
And he also brought some amazing rugby in attack; iron wall defence, a never say die attitude and of course wins in all major competitions.
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| Quote 100% Warrior="100% Warrior"I can name some but I don’t see the point. You clearly aren’t a fan of impact players, which is fine by the way it’s not a criticism of you but me naming some won’t change your mind.
Re balance perhaps we did but it was successful. I would much rather a SW type style that was consistently winning trophies and beating our nearest and dearest rivals than a free-flowing, no idea what we’re doing style we adopted last season which resulted in us being torn to pieces by Saints each time we played them and in reality we were never really serious contenders for the SL trophy.
I’m not convinced Lam has the credentials or ability to strike that balance. We have the players to do it but it’s the coach where the biggest question mark is for me.'"
Good post mate. The irony with Lam is all he claimed to improve has gone backward. We're not getting free-flow rugby; we're getting a disorganised mess.
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| Quote Itchy Arsenal="Itchy Arsenal"Maybe we have had the wrong balance? Winning trophies and reduced attendances sounds like a oxymoron to me.
Sorry to disagree but I dont in general like "impact" players. If they were any good they would be in the starting 13.
Name me half a dozen great or even really good impact players?
I know that you will name some and im sure they may be decent players but if they are that good why put them on the bench?? Will your list of impact players include any backs?
Multiple substitutions leads to athletes rather than rugby players.'"
I actually do see the advantage of 'impact players' At times the teams energy can drop if the other team is getting on the front foot or if they've seen a lot of ball. Impact players (for example Rob Burrow) added energy, speed at a time when the oppositions forwards energy is dropping. I've seen games changed with an impact player comes off the bench.
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Club Coach | 15464 | Wigan Warriors |
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Jul 2005 | 20 years | |
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| What about other sports? I suspect there are moves from NFL, NBA and NHL which could translate, plus obviously RU
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Player Coach | 1081 | Wigan Warriors |
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Sep 2010 | 15 years | |
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| Quote Grimmy="Grimmy"What about other sports? I suspect there are moves from NFL, NBA and NHL which could translate, plus obviously RU'"
Why complicate matters when you can look back and see ready made set plays from the great teams of the 90's that would work today?
Its all about sending defenders the wrong way and at the wrong men. What worked to confuse defenders back then will mostly still work today.
This is one of the reasons i wanted the club to bring in Andy Gregory to work with our half backs. We need somebody that can think outside of todays robotic structure obsessed setup. Thats not to say throw the modern game out of the window but merge the old and new together and get the best of both worlds.
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